Carman06 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Just picked up the latest GSG 1911 LBP with under frame rail, bridge and red dot. It also has a much more comfortable wood style grips. Looking forward to taking it down the range at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Where did you get it from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Forest lodge guns, wragby. They got them Tuesday. They are doing the base model which now has wood style grips for £415 and the tactical model with frame rail, bridge and red dot along with more ergonomic grips for £550. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Going to get one when my variation comes back to pair with my GSG522 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Going to get one when my variation comes back to pair with my GSG522 Just what I am after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 Just picked up the latest GSG 1911 LBP with under frame rail, bridge and red dot. It also has a much more comfortable wood style grips. Looking forward to taking it down the range at the weekend. Just out of interest, does the rear extension/balance get in the way of the magazine at all, and how is it actually attached, can you remove it easily for cleaning or if you want to change pistol grips. I'm thinking of getting the base model and a couple of third party tweeks. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja_fox Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 Can't remove the brace - it's welded onto the bottom of the grip. Take it off and it becomes a section 5 firearm & that's not a good thing... Doesn't get in the way of the magazine really but can be a bit fiddly sometimes to make sure that the magazine is seated properly, especially if you're in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 So to obtain a sec 1 for these would.thw only route be time served at a club? I'm assuming that you aren't allowed to handle or shoot them without a sec 1 so howbwoukd you get to do time at a club with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 So to obtain a sec 1 for these would.thw only route be time served at a club? I'm assuming that you aren't allowed to handle or shoot them without a sec 1 so howbwoukd you get to do time at a club with them? You cannot shoot one unless it's on your licence I have a grand power K22 and a Taurus.357 I am not allowed to let anyone else have a go with them even other club members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 You cannot shoot one unless it's on your licence I have a grand power K22 and a Taurus.357 I am not allowed to let anyone else have a go with them even other club membersThanks, So how would I proceed in getting one added to my licence? Currency hold a standard SGC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Thanks, So how would I proceed in getting one added to my licence? Currency hold a standard SGC Apply for an FAC It's a normal Section 1 firearm, but with added restrictions on use by anyone but the owner (same as Section 1 shotguns) If you've not got club membership you'll either need to complete the six month probation period & then apply for full membership, or give reason for using one for vermin control. An easily option for the latter would be something like a Browning Buckmark carbine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 But if nobody else is allowed to use one apart from licence holders and you can't have a go what would you do after joining a club? Or could I get fac for a shotgun and then have this added on afterwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 But if nobody else is allowed to use one apart from licence holders and you can't have a go what would you do after joining a club? Or could I get fac for a shotgun and then have this added on afterwards? Er, right. AFTER club membership YOU could apply for an GAC, then buy one & use it. IF you choose the FAC for a S.1 shotgun, there's ZERO guarantees that ANY subsequent addition would be approved without satisfying the "good reason" requirement first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 You cannot shoot one unless it's on your licence I have a grand power K22 and a Taurus.357 I am not allowed to let anyone else have a go with them even other club members I don't think that's right given there is no legal definition of a 'long barreled pistol'. Under the law they are 'rifle carbines' and so no different to any other rifle that you can let someone have a go with at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I don't think that's right given there is no legal definition of a 'long barreled pistol'. Under the law they are 'rifle carbines' and so no different to any other rifle that you can let someone have a go with at the club. Want to CHECK that out? FACs DO have some guns listed AS LBP or LBR. If listed as "rifle" or "carbine" I'd agree they DO meet normal club usage rules. Otherwise = NOT allowed to be used bg anyone other than registered owner, same as section 1 shotguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Want to CHECK that out? FACs DO have some guns listed AS LBP or LBR. If listed as "rifle" or "carbine" I'd agree they DO meet normal club usage rules. Otherwise = NOT allowed to be used bg anyone other than registered owner, same as section 1 shotguns. I know, my license has LBP and LBR written on it too but it also has .22RF and many other fallacies on it too written by clueless FEO's. That doesn't make it a legal definition. Under the law of the land there is no such thing as a 'LBP' or a 'LBR' they are rifles as they have a 12" rifled barrel and are 24" overall. That is why they are legal to own under section 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 I don't think that's right given there is no legal definition of a 'long barreled pistol'. Under the law they are 'rifle carbines' and so no different to any other rifle that you can let someone have a go with at the club. In order to be in possession of a firearm that you don't have a certificate for (i.e. a club gun, estate rifle or someone elses gun) you require a lawful defence. Those defences are contained within the Firearms Act 1968 and 1988 and include; 1968 S11.4 - Miniature rifle range (Fairground exemption for rimfire rifles) S11.5 - Borrowing shotgun on private property (S2/SGC shotguns only) S11.6 - The clay pigeon ground defence (S2/SGC shotguns) 1988 S15 - HO approved gun club (Only covers rifles or muzzle loading pistols) S16 - Borrowing rifle on private property (the 'estate rifle' exemption - only applies to rifles) There is no lawful defence for the possession of someone elses S1 shotgun or LBP/LBR as they are not classed rifles or muzzle loading pistols and therefore the above defences cannot be used. There are only pieces of legislation but even I'm not sad enough to dig absolutely everything up on a Friday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Given LBR's and LBP's are specifically made to conform to a rifles minimum specifications where in the law are they described as something separate from a normal rifle of the same specification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) That's the crux of the matter though, they WEREN'T designed to fit in with the criteria of a rifle. They were designed to NOT to be small firearms i.e. handguns, as described in the 1997 Firearms Acts, and because of that in some aspects of the legislation they live in a 'grey' area, i.e. the areas that give a person a defence for having a firearm in their possession. Edited March 26, 2017 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 That's the crux of the matter though, they WEREN'T designed to fit in with the criteria of a rifle. They were designed to NOT to be small firearms i.e. handguns, as described in the 1997 Firearms Acts, and because of that in some aspects of the legislation they live in a 'grey' area, i.e. the areas that give a person a defence for having a firearm in their possession. They don't live in a grey area they were designed to fall in to the designation of a rifle that's why they have a 12" barrel and are 24" overall. So legally they are rifles if they were anything else they wouldn't be legal! Let me give you an example, what is the difference between a Browning Buckmark Carbine and a Browning Buckmark LBP? Under the law? There isn't one not in any way. LBR's and LBP's are rifles and are perfectly legal to be shot by a friend in a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) If they didn't live in a grey area of SOME of the legislation why are they not permitted to be own as club guns and why can't you lend them to other FAC owners at a gun club? As already shown above it's because they are NOT classed as rifles! Show me the definition of a rifle in the firearms acts and you can go to the top of the class! To save you some time, there isn't one. There is however a definition of a small firearm i.e. a gun which has a barrel greater than 12" and an OAL greater than 24". Just because something isn't a handgun it doesn't automatically follow that it is a rifle (not in law anyway). Once again, LBP's/LBR's were designed so they didn't fit the definition of a small firearm, that's why they are not prohibited, not because they are regarded as a rifle. The Buckmark saga had to go to court (one of the members of the Sportsman Association did I believe) to be resolved and it almost resulted in him doing time, again, because they are grey area guns. Edited March 26, 2017 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 They don't live in a grey area they were designed to fall in to the designation of a rifle that's why they have a 12" barrel and are 24" overall. So legally they are rifles if they were anything else they wouldn't be legal! Let me give you an example, what is the difference between a Browning Buckmark Carbine and a Browning Buckmark LBP? Under the law? There isn't one not in any way. LBR's and LBP's are rifles and are perfectly legal to be shot by a friend in a club. This is why they can not be used by others 18.3. Members of a rifle club, miniature rifle club or muzzle-loading pistol club approved by the Secretary of State or the Scottish Ministers may, without holding firearm certificates, have in their possession firearms and ammunition when engaged as members of the club in, or in connection with, target shooting (section 15(1) of the 1988 Act as amended by section 45 of the 1997 Act). It should be noted that section 15(1) does not stipulate that the firearms must be club firearms. A member of an approved club may temporarily possess a firearm solely in connection with target shooting on the club’s range, or other ranges which it may use. However, a person cannot possess a firearm under this exemption if it is a class of firearm for which the club is not approved. It should also be noted that section 15(1) of the 1988 Act, as amended, does not apply to the use of long barrelled pistols or section 1 shotguns used for target shooting, as it only allows possession of rifles or muzzle-loading pistols at suitably approved clubs. Accordingly, club approval cannot be extended to cover the use of these firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja_fox Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 Our club bought 2 long barrel revolvers last year as club guns. Essex police have just told them that this was a mistake on their part and it's not legal so they have now had to sell them on as no one was allowed to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 Our club bought 2 long barrel revolvers last year as club guns. Essex police have just told them that this was a mistake on their part and it's not legal so they have now had to sell them on as no one was allowed to use them. Alan Westlake made a dedicated club gun. Sold with buttstock, so a normal "club rifle" & listed as such on the FAC. The trick was, the butt was removable...in such a state the rifle then resembled an lbr, and satisfied UK legislation for size. My 357 carbine is similar. Has a fitted butt, which easily comes off making it into an lbr style gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Once the but is removed unless the whole thing is 600 mm long it's illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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