Closed season on canadian geese?

[6.5x55SE]

Read the act. All birds are protected in law except those that might legally be shot in season.

Gl is just a tag on exemption issued or otherwise annually

It's important all shooting people understand this and comply as non compliance putd you back into shooting a bird you cannot the sentence might be less but it's the same offence as shooting an osprey or golden eagle etc

I do believe there are persons out thier looking for gl test cases and I know wildlife crime officers have been having some pretty focused training on the matter over the last few years

Me personally? I think the gl has become a sick joke with many simply abusing it. Rather than using it as a management tool

but they 100% have a season in which they can be killed for sporting reasons or s food resource

100 % agree Kent

Nothing would please me more than ( 1 ) Canada Geese having a season eg like Pinks

( 2) those flaunting the Law/Licence getting prosecuted and lose there SGC FAC or Both for life

[ShootingEgg]

I understand that if the Canada geese are eating and fouling a field and the farmer wants them shot then go ahead, It`s safe to assume that rthe farmer will have set the dog on them and tried to scare them away before calling you in to shoot them, as said you must use steel or some other non toxic shot to do the job.

Not sure them pooping in a field is grounds to kill them out of season. As i said previously, i was called by a local golf course to.remove a few off one fairway. I spoke to natural england and under the gl for health and public safety I was ok to cull. If they were just in a grass field then id be breaking the conditions of the gl.

[widgeon man]

Can't understand why anyone would want to shoot a Canada in summer unless it was absolutely necessary, and even then I frown at it. Give them a harder time over autumn/winter if they need thining out......It's not sporting and the meat would probably be poor..... Having shot Canada's in September, I now refrain unless a fairly cool day, as the meat stays warm for so long they need prepping Asap for the table!

[Underdog]

How about a field of cabbage destined for your local supermarket!

There are many many things grown on fields apart from just grass!

[ShootingEgg]

How about a field of cabbage destined for your local supermarket!

There are many many things grown on fields apart from just grass!

Only reason i referred to grass field was due to golf course.. They are normally grass.. Maybe a sand pit or two about...

[lakeside1000]

There are large areas of wheat and barley around the Norfolk broads and other waterways that have been ravaged by both Canada geese and the growing numbers of Egyptian geese , these are the type of areas that needed the 'thinning out ' of these invaders to British shores, The season for wild fowling has no bearing on the right of land owners to remove these from the crop just as wood pigeon and corvid can be shot all year round for the same reason,

But you must be on the land under threat, with the owners authority to remove them, you cannot just go blasting away at them at every opportunity, just as you could not shoot pigeon in the local park or grave yard,

The general licence gives the land owner the right to remove 'vermin' from their crops / land. not members of the public to pursue vermin for sport.

[poontang]

other methods of deterring them have to have been tried, ie dogs flags shouting **** *** etc etc ,

 

Unlike pigeons that's not the case.

 

As a 'non native invasive' species there is no need to try other methods of scaring before shooting them.

 

An unfortunate position in my view, but that's the position as laid down in the GL.

[malantone]

Not sure them pooping in a field is grounds to kill them out of season. As i said previously, i was called by a local golf course to.remove a few off one fairway. I spoke to natural england and under the gl for health and public safety I was ok to cull. If they were just in a grass field then id be breaking the conditions of the gl.

 

I take it you haven`t seen the amount of poop 100 Canada geese produce in a day, left to their own devices they would/could destroy a large area of grass in no time at all, you don`t seem to appreciate that grass is a valuable crop needed by farmers to feed cattle summer and winter. This is why they were added to the list in order to control them and reduce numbers all year round. they do not have an open season, they are on the list of vermin like pigeons and crows, if they where in a grass field and the farmer didn`t want them there then he is perfectly entitled to ask a shooter to get rid of them,

Edited August 31, 2015 by malantone

[RossEM]

Ok, have I missed something here?

Canadas are listed on three of the OGL because they are a genuine pest in certain circumstances. By inference, they do not have a closed season as they may need to be controlled outside of closed season dates.

The point of the OGL are to provide a legal basis for control of flora & fauna which is invasive or otherwise threatening to human health, agriculture or property.

Here are the OGLs:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wild-birds-licence-to-take-or-kill-for-conservation-purposes

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wild-birds-licence-to-take-or-kill-for-health-or-safety-purposes

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wild-birds-licence-to-take-or-kill-to-prevent-damage-or-disease

I've looked, and there is no mention of closed seasons for birds listed on the OGL - i.e. Canada geese. If anyone has a link that contradicts this, please post it.

Here's what the BASC quarry list says about Canadas (there is no quarry list on the .GOV site, it just has a link to BASC's list):

'This species can be shot throughout the year (i.e. during the close season) in England, Wales and Scotland only under the terms and conditions of specific general licences.'

I'm still at a loss as to where it is legally defined that Canadas, or indeed any bird listed on the OGL, have a closed season. Would Christopher Graffius care to clarify?

The question here is would we be in breach of the OGL if shooting a Canada for sporting purposes? Personally I find it bizarre that Canadas are seen as a sporting prospect, because in my part of the world they are indeed numerous, invasive and damaging - that said, I would not control them in the breeding season and would not shoot juveniles.

[6.5x55SE]

I take it you haven`t seen the amount of poop 100 Canada geese produce in a day, left to their own devices they would/could destroy a large area of grass in no time at all, you don`t seem to appreciate that grass is a valuable crop needed by farmers to feed cattle summer and winter. This is why they were added to the list in order to control them and reduce numbers all year round. they do not have an open season, they are on the list of vermin like pigeons and crows, if they where in a grass field and the farmer didn`t want them there then he is perfectly entitled to ask a shooter to get rid of them,

 

Please read and read then understand the Law correctly Canada Geese " ARE NOT VERMIN " there have always been and still are Classed a " WILDFOWL " and covered by WILDFOWL laws eg You can NOT use a Shotgun capable of holding more than ONE cartridge in the chamber and TWO in the magazine and you have to use NON TOXIC SHOT

Surely even you can see if they was VERMIN the semi auto and non toxic rule would not apply

[malantone]

Please read and read then understand the Law correctly Canada Geese " ARE NOT VERMIN " there have always been and still are Classed a " WILDFOWL " and covered by WILDFOWL laws eg You can NOT use a Shotgun capable of holding more than ONE cartridge in the chamber and TWO in the magazine and you have to use NON TOXIC SHOT

Surely even you can see if they was VERMIN the semi auto and non toxic rule would not apply

 

Stop being so pedantic , they are on the same list as pigeon and crows, ok you have to shoot them with non toxic loads, I am not sure whether or not you can use an FAC shotgun, the same as you can on pigeon and crow but it`s quite probable it can be used on Canadas .If of course you know different could you post the relevant passage SO THAT EVEN I CAN UNDERSTAND IT

[CharlieT]

 

Ok, have I missed something here?

Canadas are listed on three of the OGL because they are a genuine pest in certain circumstances. By inference, they do not have a closed season as they may need to be controlled outside of closed season dates.

I've looked, and there is no mention of closed seasons for birds listed on the OGL - i.e. Canada geese. If anyone has a link that contradicts this, please post it.

Here's what the BASC quarry list says about Canadas (there is no quarry list on the .GOV site, it just has a link to BASC's list):

'This species can be shot throughout the year (i.e. during the close season) in England, Wales and Scotland only under the terms and conditions of specific general licences.'

I'm still at a loss as to where it is legally defined that Canadas, or indeed any bird listed on the OGL, have a closed season. Would Christopher Graffius care to clarify?

The question here is would we be in breach of the OGL if shooting a Canada for sporting purposes? Personally I find it bizarre that Canadas are seen as a sporting prospect, because in my part of the world they are indeed numerous, invasive and damaging - that said, I would not control them in the breeding season and would not shoot juveniles.

 

 

RossEM, like all who shoot you really do need to understand the law. It's time you read and understood the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

 

And to answer your question, read section 2 of the above act.

 

As Kent has said, the GL is mearly an instrument to permit authorised persons to control named birds without committing an offence under the WCA.

 

Edited to add..........it may be beneficial to many posters to read Natural England technical information note TIN 009 on the subject, it clearly states the status of Canada Geese.

Edited August 31, 2015 by CharlieT

[6.5x55SE]

Stop being so pedantic , they are on the same list as pigeon and crows, ok you have to shoot them with non toxic loads, I am not sure whether or not you can use an FAC shotgun, the same as you can on pigeon and crow but it`s quite probable it can be used on Canadas .If of course you know different could you post the relevant passage SO THAT EVEN I CAN UNDERSTAND IT[/quote

 

I personal don't think you will ever truly understand the Law regarding Canada Geese as over the years plenty has posted what's right and wrong yet you still argue the fact.

Check for your self about what I stated about the Shotgun use as I would not or do not have a clue how to post a link .

Oh and I'm man enough to apologise when I'm wrong are you !!!!!

[kent]

 

Stop being so pedantic , they are on the same list as pigeon and crows, ok you have to shoot them with non toxic loads, I am not sure whether or not you can use an FAC shotgun, the same as you can on pigeon and crow but it`s quite probable it can be used on Canadas .If of course you know different could you post the relevant passage SO THAT EVEN I CAN UNDERSTAND IT

I have already quoted an explained

I am glad you mention pigeon and crows though because neither of these has a season hence they can only be killed under the gl

I hope those that don't get this might understand now

Canada geese are introduced but hundreds of years ago they are not really classed as invasive at all but a welcome addition to what might be a very barren land if man had not played his hand

The main reason Wildfowlers tend to hate the gl is the simple fact that from today through till February or Feb 20 below the high water mark you can shoot them within a season- there you have half the year when there are no dependant young and all the birds have the power of flight in which they can be shot without any need to prove any reason

Remember pigeon and crow have no season and can only be shot under the gl

[RossEM]

 

RossEM, like all who shoot you really do need to understand the law. It's time you read and understood the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

 

And to answer your question, read section 2 of the above act.

 

As Kent has said, the GL is mearly an instrument to permit authorised persons to control named birds without committing an offence under the WCA.

 

Edited to add..........it may be beneficial to many posters to read Natural England technical information note TIN 009 on the subject, it clearly states the status of Canada Geese.

 

That's unfair. I use the quarry list and the OGL as definitive guide to what I can and can't shoot, as does every single shooter I know. Can you please state whereabouts in section 2 of that Act there is a definition of closed seasons for Canada Geese? This piece of legislation was passed long before the inception of the OGL, yet are you saying it supercedes the OGL?

[adi786]

here's a link ... relax all

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/393764/licence_to_kill_or_take_certain_wild_birds_to_prevent_serious_damage_or_disease__GL04_.pdf

 

As some people mentioned above you cannot just shoot them for sports, if you shoot them during summer, you should have a valid reason why you are.
Anyways its 1st Sept, go shoot them

Edited September 1, 2015 by adi786

[RossEM]

Thanks for the link which confirms what I've been trying to say. I'm not of the opinion that Canadas should be shot outside their former season, but of course if they are causing serious damage then there is legislation in place that permits it. Since their introduction to the OGL, their former closed season no longer applies. It is the OGL which is relevant in this case.

[CharlieT]

 

That's unfair. I use the quarry list and the OGL as definitive guide to what I can and can't shoot, as does every single shooter I know. Can you please state whereabouts in section 2 of that Act there is a definition of closed seasons for Canada Geese? This piece of legislation was passed long before the inception of the OGL, yet are you saying it supercedes the OGL?

 

 

Thanks for the link which confirms what I've been trying to say. I'm not of the opinion that Canadas should be shot outside their former season, but of course if they are causing serious damage then there is legislation in place that permits it. Since their introduction to the OGL, their former closed season no longer applies. It is the OGL which is relevant in this case.

 

RossEM, It's not their former season at all, the season still applies.

 

When will you understand that all birds are protected and may only be shot where there is an open season or a license has been granted.

 

In the case of Canada Geese, they may be shot for sport during their open season OR they may be controlled by various means, for specific purposes, under the terms of the license in their closed season.

 

It's not a very hard concept to grasp. Have you taken the trouble to read and understand the legislation ?

[adi786]

 

Simple it is, as above quite few people already mentioned. Canada geese were protected, only to be soht during season, recently they're added @Pest list but not like pigeons (which can be shot any time). For canada's you cannot shot them unless they damaging crops, the is the only reason which you probably be shooting for.

 

You cannot shoot them if they are just grazing on crops which are already harvested, example 2 weeks ago around 40 canada's came into wheat field which was already harvested, they were close enough for me to take down couple but i didn't as the crop was already harvested so they not damaging...

[kent]

 

 

That's unfair. I use the quarry list and the OGL as definitive guide to what I can and can't shoot, as does every single shooter I know. Can you please state whereabouts in section 2 of that Act there is a definition of closed seasons for Canada Geese? This piece of legislation was passed long before the inception of the OGL, yet are you saying it supercedes the OGL?[/quote

 

Gl is not as such legislation its an annual grant to break existing laws if you look on it that way

There is no talk of closed seasons just the period it's an open season

[kent]

Thanks for the link which confirms what I've been trying to say. I'm not of the opinion that Canadas should be shot outside their former season, but of course if they are causing serious damage then there is legislation in place that permits it. Since their introduction to the OGL, their former closed season no longer applies. It is the OGL which is relevant in this case.

You don't get the gl rules and the primary legislation I suggest you do some research rather than debate

It's essential you understand before you pick up the gun

[CharlieT]

 

Simple it is, as above quite few people already mentioned. Canada geese were protected, only to be soht during season, recently they're added @Pest list but not like pigeons (which can be shot any time). For canada's you cannot shot them unless they damaging crops, the is the only reason which you probably be shooting for.

 

You cannot shoot them if they are just grazing on crops which are already harvested, example 2 weeks ago around 40 canada's came into wheat field which was already harvested, they were close enough for me to take down couple but i didn't as the crop was already harvested so they not damaging...

 

I'm afraid this is just not correct.

[kent]

You know a big argument against the gl is lack of understanding / compliance

[Piebob]

You know a big argument against the gl is lack of understanding / compliance

Indeed, but it really is pretty straightforward, and I think some of the issue is people not understanding the exact meaning of terms such as season for example. I'll have a go at high-level basics.

 

All birds are protected.

Some (game birds, some wildfowl, some waders, etc) have open seasons when they can be shot.

In order to shoot them out of season (or any other bird), you need to do so under license.

One such license would be the general license.

[RossEM]

I wasn't aware that Canadas remain, in a legal sense, game - and that their closed season applies when shooting them for sporting reasons. Are they unique in this?

 

Just like to say to Charlie T that yes I did read the W&C Act (impenetrable as it is) pertaining to Canadas, but I was under the impression that their OGL status would override their game bird classification. It makes little sense to me that Canadas are defined in law as both game and vermin. Perhaps it's a geography thing as they are never a sporting prospect in my part of the world, they're vermin. However, yes I understand the concept that if a bird is placed onto the OGL but remains a game bird under the original legislation, then its closed season applies when shot for sporting purposes. But we're talking about pest control here, therefore there is no closed season.

Edited September 1, 2015 by RossEM