Outdoorsman Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Im about to put a variation in and im torn between the two, has anyone on here got experience with both how much of a difference is there in usable accuracy and range mainly foxs and probably any rabbits if theres no charlie present, if its close between them ill probably go for the cheapest to reload which im presuming is the hornet. Im also putting in for .243 as a fox/deer gun, so i want something to bridge the gap from HMR to .243, then i can have the HMR as my dedicated NV set up for mainly rabbits plus then what ever i decide on as a main fox gun, any advice etc much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 if you go .222 you can shoot munty and cwd if one comes along which you can't with a hornet, if your re loading you can load down a .222 to hornet speeds so it will do both just my thoughts colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Had both, many times had both. In my opinion they are worlds apart. I use to push my trip2's beyond 300 yds on a still day and accuracy was easily achieved and brass lasted well. Getting hornet to go beyond 200yds I found difficult. The only rifle in hornet I did well at distance was with a 1/14 twist and 50grn bullets. Brass is flimsy compared to trip2. I like both but if only one could be chosen I would be as confused as you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Try replacing the hmr with a..22 hornet .22 lr .22 hornet .243 win The above don't leave no gaps in three guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Cheers lads looks as though its tipping towards the treble, or is there enough of a difference in it to have both, anyone know the difference between cost to reload as if thats not much difference i might aswell just get the .222 anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Kent with the equaliser, i quite like the hmr thats all, i think its cheap enough to use on the rabbits which theres alot of and it is a capable round on charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) I'll go one further on Kent's suggestion... FAC Air 22 - cheap, silent, perfect for paddocks, large gardens, allotments, sunny days lying up, trees and places where you can't use the 22lr / hmr - range out to 60 yards on bunnies no problem. 17 hornet - flat, fast, bunny and (possibly) fox basher. More knock-down and range than the hmr or 22lr. 243 win - as the man say's. A do-it-all round that is super versatile and can be loaded with 55gn - 100gn. that's where I'm headed... Edited February 10, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I was considering a 17 c/f but they all just seem a faf on from what ive read, having to resize brass it is a good shout though, FAC air i also considered but the 22lr has that base covered really would be nice though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It depends how geeky about reloading you are. I love reloading, so much so that other people come round with all the bits and I sit there and reload for them too. Once done, they take it all away again happy. I haven't tried resizing the brass from 22 hornet to 17 hornet yet, dies are coming and I got some cases off Steve B to practice on but, having read a tonne of info from the American forums, provided you follow the tips posted online it looks fairly easy really with a high success rate. £20 for 100 PPU cases, resized, 6 loads then bin them puts the brass at 3p a case, a kilo of N120 is going to last for ages and the bullets aren't that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Its all this annealing i read about as well, reloading definitely intrests me and is the type of thing im sure ill enjoy, it would just be all that extra time needed and availability of components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 if you go .222 you can shoot munty and cwd if one comes along which you can't with a hornet, if your re loading you can load down a .222 to hornet speeds so it will do both just my thoughts colin Either choice reloading is the way to go and as stated above .222 can be downloaded to hornet cost/power but hornet cannot be loaded to .222 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Oh, yes. That. I'm building one at the moment with the help of a 3D printer and Old No7 (not the Bourbon - the PW member). Waiting on some motors from China then I should be able to get it all together. There is a really simple version that can be made, for around £150, on YouTube (Skippy Annealer) and many variants. If you handy with your hands you can make one no problem. Otherwise, resize and post them to one of many people that offer the service (I'd use Spud's site) and they'll do it for you, so resize 200 at a time and post them off. Many people don't anneal though and don't seem to get any split necks at all, I think it depends on the dies used. I've ordered a set of Redding form and trim dies (22 hornet to 17 hornet) and a set of Redding FL sizing dies. Reports are annealing isn't required with those dies. Just form the neck, FL size, trim, load and fire form and then carry on as normal (allegedly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I annealed cases once in 25 years. Dunna worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Thats sort of thrown a spanner in because i liked the thought of the 17hornet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Not really, you could just use Hornady 17 brass, no fuss required, just a set of FL dies. Edited February 11, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 There'll be plenty of factory 17 hornet for a while to come yet too... You could always buy that then reload it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Not an easy choice - a case of, "all at 6s and 7s". I agree with UD about the 1 in 14 twist and 50g. Assuming you've got the top end distance wise covered by the 243, then this combination makes a superb mid-range fox round. But, you might/probably will walk into magazine length/CoL problems. I get around it by using single shot which causes me no difficulty. However, there's nothing wrong with the traditional Hornet 45g bullet and which is the better option for rabbit. Having said that and again because you have the 243, there's always the 17 Hornet option. Choosing the delightful 222 would in 99% of cases mean that the 243 can stay in the cabinet with regards to fox unless your ground is wide open. Just one point if you go for the 22 Hornet which I learned the hard way. Be very careful if you reload and decide to try the 45g V Max type of bullet - and particularly the Nosler version - working up your charge carefully and paying attention to signs of excess pressure. The bullet shape is different from the traditional Hornet version with a far greater area in contact with the barrel/rifling. This can put the pressure way up and makes a mockery of any reloading table you might use. In short, it really is whatever you fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Its all this annealing i read about as well, reloading definitely intrests me and is the type of thing im sure ill enjoy, it would just be all that extra time needed and availability of components I don't anneal and if you go with the hornady hornet version (no reason why not) then just buy a thousand brass to start with and never worry about forming or annealing. Short of blowing through 200 a night every other night of the week you're not going to go through 1k brass anytime soon. That said, what do you want the gun to do? You've had a couple sensible thoughts on combinations of guns above. The set of FAC air, 17 hornet, and 243 is a good one if you reload as it gives you close and quiet for small stuff (FAC air), close to mid range for small stuff and an occasional fox gun (17 hornet), and a dedicated fox gun and deer gun (243). You can make the same argument for 22 LR, 22 hornet/222, and 243 (or other larger deer gun) except that you lose a little on the low end and your 22 CF could be a dedicated fox gun but also for small vermin. You say you have the HMR already (and it sounds like a 22LR) so it depends what you want the middle gun to do. If the answer is 'primarily fox, but the occasional rabbit at distance' then the 222 is a pretty sweet round- easy to load for, lots of factory ammo available, good brass and other components, lots available second hand. That would be my choice in your situation. My own personal set is 22LR/17 hornet/223. The hornet gets the most use as I don't have volume rabbits or night shooting where the quietness and economy of the LR comes into play. I am not a dedicated foxer so I don't need the 223 much. The 17 hornet is a great short walkabout gun and truck gun for anything that I normally encounter. I also had a 30-06 on my ticket for some time, but never got into deer (wife doesn't eat deer meat) so varied it for something else. thanks, rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Not an easy choice - a case of, "all at 6s and 7s". I agree with UD about the 1 in 14 twist and 50g. Assuming you've got the top end distance wise covered by the 243, then this combination makes a superb mid-range fox round. But, you might/probably will walk into magazine length/CoL problems. I get around it by using single shot which causes me no difficulty. However, there's nothing wrong with the traditional Hornet 45g bullet and which is the better option for rabbit. Having said that and again because you have the 243, there's always the 17 Hornet option. Choosing the delightful 222 would in 99% of cases mean that the 243 can stay in the cabinet with regards to fox unless your ground is wide open. Just one point if you go for the 22 Hornet which I learned the hard way. Be very careful if you reload and decide to try the 45g V Max type of bullet - and particularly the Nosler version - working up your charge carefully and paying attention to signs of excess pressure. The bullet shape is different from the traditional Hornet version with a far greater area in contact with the barrel/rifling. This can put the pressure way up and makes a mockery of any reloading table you might use. In short, it really is whatever you fancy. Put perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 At the minuit when i go out on my perm lamping theres normally 2 of us me on the hmr and the other lad on the .22, on the other perm i generally just take the hmr, so im coverd for a close fox in either situation, what i want to do is hmr for solo trips with nv, then somthing bigger to take any fox that maybe present when im out but wont be too much to shoot the odd rabbit with if i go on a solo fox session and nothing turns up i could shoot a few rabbits and it wont be a wasted journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Do you want to keep the rabbits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) At the minuit when i go out on my perm lamping theres normally 2 of us me on the hmr and the other lad on the .22, on the other perm i generally just take the hmr, so im coverd for a close fox in either situation, what i want to do is hmr for solo trips with nv, then somthing bigger to take any fox that maybe present when im out but wont be too much to shoot the odd rabbit with if i go on a solo fox session and nothing turns up i could shoot a few rabbits and it wont be a wasted journey. It's beginning to sound like either of the two Hornets. One way to find out is to leave the guns at home and visit the two sites. Have a good wander around and look at your realistic maximum possible shooting distances - night and day, but particularly the former as it's odds on that whereas the range available to the 243 in daylight will be severely reduced at night. If you decide that it's consistently not over the 200 yard mark, then the Hornet it is, but over that, then the 222. If you're not too sure about the capability of the 22 Hornet and are going by the available factory rounds, as you mentioned reloading, it's worth noting that it is perfectly feasible to obtain in excess of 800 ft/lbs which still gives some 400 at the 200 yards which at a sensible zero for the majority of shots produces not more than a 2" drop at that distance. Edit: On reflection I may have appeared blinkered. I mentioned the 45g bullet as this is the weight the gun was designed around and the 50g is just the one I prefer for fox. There are also some very good 40g available which remain fine for fox but, perhaps, more suitable for rabbit. However, avoid the 35g V Max at all costs - the BC is appalling and the down range accuracy abysmal in my opinion. Edited February 11, 2016 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 At the minuit when i go out on my perm lamping theres normally 2 of us me on the hmr and the other lad on the .22, on the other perm i generally just take the hmr, so im coverd for a close fox in either situation, what i want to do is hmr for solo trips with nv, then somthing bigger to take any fox that maybe present when im out but wont be too much to shoot the odd rabbit with if i go on a solo fox session and nothing turns up i could shoot a few rabbits and it wont be a wasted journey. If its only a few rabbits on the odd trip save your money and just use your 243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Post deleted - don't know what happened it was duplicated as my first effort wasn't recognised so I'm wrongly told. Edited February 11, 2016 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 For me it's.22lr, .22wmr, .222 cf Just waiting on variation for wmr to come then the hmr will be redundant I don't shoot over 200 at night foxing so the triple is more than I need and the only deer I shop are cwd and munty, Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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