m3vert Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Lads I know its being kept civil, but in fairness the point of this thread is to gain support for Findhorn Bay lets not try to derail the thread Looks like the 1000 should be in the bag then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local lad Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Hi Fenboy. At the time of writing had just read some more of the past comments regards shooting and the latest letters printed in the local paper so was just a little peeved off with the whole situation. Not a word or description I would usually use and may of over stepped the mark, sorry about that but this season has seen:- A guy in a hi-viz jacket standing behind a shooter then in front waving his arms to get a reaction while being filmed by a guy hidden in bushes-fact. Have had a jogger in a ski mask jogging between shooters on the bank of the local burn under the flight-fact. On a number of occasions local minister standing in the bushes well behind shooters with a camera, not illegal but very stupid and off putting -fact. Local minister videoing a wounded goose, posting the video on youtube and making no effort to tell the shooter that was looking for the bird where it was until he had got all his footage and couldn't follow the bird any further-fact Claims on the web that the shooters leave lots of empty alcohol bottles littering the foreshore. Claims that school children are terrified by shooters in camo gear.(This also now a army base!!!) Claims that shooters are littering the foreshore, its a tidal bay with a river. Most plastics are either old bottles, used condoms or tampons which may have something to do with the two sewage inlets!!! The claims go on and on and on. Having shot the bay for 40 years I think you can appreciate my frustration that shooting and other facets of the local way of life being attacked by a small number of people that have a picture postcard view of country life and want us all conform to that. Again apologies at the use of the word "scum" but hope you can appropriate my frustration. But I have a plan........................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Hi Fenboy. At the time of writing had just read some more of the past comments regards shooting and the latest letters printed in the local paper so was just a little peeved off with the whole situation. Not a word or description I would usually use and may of over stepped the mark, sorry about that but this season has seen:- A guy in a hi-viz jacket standing behind a shooter then in front waving his arms to get a reaction while being filmed by a guy hidden in bushes-fact. Have had a jogger in a ski mask jogging between shooters on the bank of the local burn under the flight-fact. On a number of occasions local minister standing in the bushes well behind shooters with a camera, not illegal but very stupid and off putting -fact. Local minister videoing a wounded goose, posting the video on youtube and making no effort to tell the shooter that was looking for the bird where it was until he had got all his footage and couldn't follow the bird any further-fact Claims on the web that the shooters leave lots of empty alcohol bottles littering the foreshore. Claims that school children are terrified by shooters in camo gear.(This also now a army base!!!) Claims that shooters are littering the foreshore, its a tidal bay with a river. Most plastics are either old bottles, used condoms or tampons which may have something to do with the two sewage inlets!!! The claims go on and on and on. Having shot the bay for 40 years I think you can appreciate my frustration that shooting and other facets of the local way of life being attacked by a small number of people that have a picture postcard view of country life and want us all conform to that. Again apologies at the use of the word "scum" but hope you can appropriate my frustration. But I have a plan........................................... Yes I can quite understand your frustration , good luck with your plan ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Perhaps , but it could also be argued that shooters in general are the minority forcing our opinions on others , as I said as long as what they do is above board and legal then I would not regard them as scum and I would stand by that , I do of course hope they fail miserably in their attempts though. Wildfowling is a perfectly legal and time honoured sport, we shooters are not forcing our opinions on others, a couple of anti shooting extremists are trying to force their opinions on everyone! Using misinformation emotional blackmail and downright lies to achieve a change in the law and a ban on the lawful sport of shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 http://www.forres-gazette.co.uk/News/Wildfowling-options-to-be-further-discussed-by-Moray-Council-08032016.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 And so the fight begins then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 It does indeed but it's going to take some sorting out - 1) antis want a ban, 2) BASC want a permit system, 3) SACS want to keep the status quo !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 LETS HOPE THE SACS OPTION PREVAILS, And proper hearing and representation and not a whitewash . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Why exactly do BASC favour a permit system that will hinder some of its members shooting in that area?? Glad to see SACS are taking the sensible route, well done SACS. You will never satisfy an anti!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Why exactly do BASC favour a permit system that will hinder some of its members shooting in that area?? Glad to see SACS are taking the sensible route, well done SACS. You will never satisfy an anti!!! I suport BASC they are the best option we shooters have generally staff are educated and knowledgable in what they do and most of the time they are right there on the money . But sometimes i feel especialy in this kind of sittuation BASC do tend to fight a running retreat looking for a result with less cassualties rather than a full on assault which is needed , and sorry but i think they need to get mean here or we will be finnished up there, its a stand that must be made any presidents set here will i fear have long term implications to wildfowling in Scotland as we know it now and how its been historicaly. Edited March 9, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I was hoping DavidBASC would maybe come along and give an explanation why his organization was taking such a lame opposition?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I was hoping DavidBASC would maybe come along and give an explanation why his organization was taking such a lame opposition?? It wont be a lame opposition BASC dont do Lame. but it will most proibably be a a safe shot if you like, we need them to get a bit wild here to get the right result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I imagine theirs was a pragmatic approach in the face of the possibility of a total ban...........once this position is taken it is difficult to go back to a more militant position...........and maintain credibility! Many would prefer the status quo to a permit system and many would prefer a permit system to a total ban. There now seems to be some resistance to a total ban, the status quo would be the preferred result but Wildfowling needs to address the undeniable issues at Findhorn Bay, through........dare I say it.........negotiation and ultimately......compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I imagine theirs was a pragmatic approach in the face of the possibility of a total ban...........once this position is taken it is difficult to go back to a more militant position...........and maintain credibility! Many would prefer the status quo to a permit system and many would prefer a permit system to a total ban. There now seems to be some resistance to a total ban, the status quo would be the preferred result but Wildfowling needs to address the undeniable issues at Findhorn Bay, through........dare I say it.........negotiation and ultimately......compromise. I personally have no issue with a permit system - like you say it's needed ufortunately. However I do have a issue with having to pay for said permit. The permit system alone will hopefully discourage the Cowboys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) I dont see why a permit system is needed its no different to any other marsh in the country when the geese are there the guns are if in a club or on a permit whats the difference , restriction to just a few permits not only robs the responsible wildfowler from a valluable sporting resource and for no good reason. Local businesses will lose money and the antis will have an even easier task of pinning accountability at an organisations door rather than the whole country wide wildfowling scene. All this will do is make things easierr for them, they then have their target X permit scheme X club its laid on a plater for them. I am as sure as i can be this sittuation up there is not all about the antis, i have seen heard enough over the past 30 +years up there to see some elliments in wildfowling that would welcome such a scheme and club with open arms. Donny S an old fowler died a wile back up there now he once told me the bay would not be shot in ten years, he was wrong about that , but its doubtfull it will be in the next ten years and if it is it wont be by us all, and that will suit a lot more in wildfowling than you would ever imagine. Any comiting atrosities need bringing to task not blanket banning or restrictions. Edited March 9, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Tony I agree with everything you say / but these antis are not going to go away and I think a permit system is the best comprimise for all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Thats just it! A COMPROMISE. WE CANT COMPROMISE We get one try at this it cant fail or we are sunk, its obvious what BASC are doing and i can see why, and they would no doubt say its risky but plain facts are we are between a rock and a hard place here, we have to go for it or live with the outcome probably forever. I am all for guaranteed results but the permit scheme is far from guaranteed and even if those in the know have inside info on this its a huge compromise by any standards. And i do think a more united approach to this could just tip things the way of right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodach Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Permit system works for Montrose Bay why not Findhorn? Was a committee member over 30 years ago and we wanted a permit system then, I don't shoot it anymore, why cause sick of fowlers walking past you to get further out not knowing the tides would push them back in. So I don't want a ban just some control to stop the cowboys. B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Permit system will work and work like montrose but i have not been to montrose since the scheme so if me and others like me not going is what you want then fine enjoy it. As for cowboys not good with cattle but i look great on a horse. Edited March 9, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Permit system will work and work like montrose but i have not been to montrose since the scheme so if me and others like me not going is what you want then fine enjoy it. As for cowboys not good with cattle but i look great on a horse. Nobody is saying your not wanted ! A permit system is more than likely the best deal BASC can get, don't forget Findhorn is a LNR so the council have the authority there and can if they wish do what the antis want and ban wildfowling there and there would not be a thing BASC could do about it. The joys of a LNR. I don't want a permit system but these antis are organised and clever and they try every loop hole to get what they want. I'd rather a permit system than no shooting there at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Nobody is saying your not wanted ! A permit system is more than likely the best deal BASC can get, don't forget Findhorn is a LNR so the council have the authority there and can if they wish do what the antis want and ban wildfowling there and there would not be a thing BASC could do about it. The joys of a LNR. I don't want a permit system but these antis are organised and clever and they try every loop hole to get what they want. I'd rather a permit system than no shooting there at all. ^ ^ This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigeon jim Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 The problem nowadays is there are far more people chasing geese than there were years ago so some kind of control is needed, also the amount of out of range shooting is ridiculous , Montrose basin has a permit system but even there early season it's ridiculous the number of shots fired at out of range geese some evenings so much so that a number of wildfowlers including myself have given up taking a permit, Findhorn needs some kind of control or it will be lost! Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local lad Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Funny how things change. For quite a few years now I have wanted a permit system on the bay to try a reduce the number of ill mannered, know it all, cowboys that have upset me and many others. I expect Findhorn Bay is much the same as many other mud flats round the UK. You turn up well early and sit in the car and wait, when others turn up you all have a good chat about tides, wind, shot load,best place to buy amo etc. As time marches on who ever arrived first picks his spot and the others follow on choosing spots depending when you arrived. How often in the middle of all this have you seen a car pull up, four shooters get out, say nothing and walk straight onto the mud flats! Then when you do get down you find them in a position in front of all the guns and they will not take advise and move. Ring any bells..... These are the kind of people that I wanted a permit system to try and reduce the numbers of. Now with Mrs Lisa "mad dog" Mead looking for a ban and assisted by the local hide in the bushes with a camera minister I now just want whats my right and that is to shoot below the high water mark. Reading all the comments on here and on the online petition I see that the Findhorn-Forres area is not the only one that has to suffer these white settlers that want to change everything so it suits them. I am sure that they read every comment on here as they do with the online petition proved by the fact that the local council have blanked all the objectors names off a planning application as it gave the names and addresses of quite a few antis so if you are reading this too late I down loaded them! As for the bay being a LNR I went to that meeting many years ago in a packed Findhorn hall. We had a show of hands as to who want it to be a LNR and it was a very positive NO. But even at that meeting you could tell that the antis on the committee had already decided. My own personal views on Mad-dog and flash cant be printed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 The permit system alone will hopefully discourage the Cowboys. I very much doubt that, it didn't at Wigtown, In fact a few threads on PW recently shows that the cowboys attitude still goes on today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Nobody is saying your not wanted ! A permit system is more than likely the best deal BASC can get, don't forget Findhorn is a LNR so the council have the authority there and can if they wish do what the antis want and ban wildfowling there and there would not be a thing BASC could do about it. The joys of a LNR. I don't want a permit system but these antis are organised and clever and they try every loop hole to get what they want. I'd rather a permit system than no shooting there at all. Agreed but we still need to fight. If the council want to why not a free full season permit like JMCP In east Lothian (450 permit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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