Zetter Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 End of the day for me is I wanted another FAC air and have always wanted a .25 so it was a nice fit as in sub 12 they don't really do so well apart from short range ratting. Itwill do a job for me as with half the energy of my LR and the natural ballistic inefficiency of the traditional shuttle cock airgun pellet I can take elevated shots when appropriate which would not be suitable with my LR and carry distance/ penetration is a lot less. Finally the Bobcat I am getting has a powe adjuster with such I can drop the powe to about 18 ft/lb which increases its versatility if I'm round building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Thanks for all the replies folks. I want/need something between 12lb and .22rf. It would be used mainly for elevated shots, both in the woods for pigeon, squirrel, crow and so on. And also around my permissions that have quite a few farm building that are spread out. Having read all your posts, I'm now wondering if 30 to 34 ft/lb in .25 is enough to keep the pellet trajectory relatively flat, compared to a .22 at 30 ft/lb. From peoples posts, it would seem that 40 ft/lb would be better for the .25, or 30 ft/lb in .22. Does anyone have any idea, or software that could show the trajectory of a .22 at 30ft/lb up to around 80 yards compared to a .25 at 34 ft/lb out to the same distance? As for pellet, maybe for arguments sake, the best pellet available for each calibre. I'm also concerned in what the difference would be in shot count per fill between the 2 calibres. Perhaps, if I went for the .25, and didn't like it, I could have it converted to a .22? Although, If the cost of changing is high, I'd be better off getting hold of a .22 in the first place. Instinct is telling me to go for the .22..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Hawke chair gun pro has a good list of .25 pellets and you can input all the data you need to get the trajectorys. Edited March 27, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Hawke chair gun pro has a good list of .25 pellets and you can input all the data you need to get the trajectorys. Cheers Figgy. I presume it's a free app then? I'll have a mooch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 .22 all day, more choice for pellets so ya can find the right pellet to suit the rifle, also cost of pellets is cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Jamie, I am also after an FAC air. I was in Sandwell field sports the others day, they are still keen on the FAC air in .177, I was surprised with their arguments for the smaller caliber. Maybe call them and hear them out....... Most on PW will say 'no way' to the 4.5mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Jamie, I am also after an FAC air. I was in Sandwell field sports the others day, they are still keen on the FAC air in .177, I was surprised with their arguments for the smaller caliber. Maybe call them and hear them out....... Most on PW will say 'no way' to the 4.5mm.A bisley mag in 177 over 900 is very useful!.22 all day, more choice for pellets so ya can find the right pellet to suit the rifle, also cost of pellets is cheaperThere are loads of choices in .25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Uttings will do 25 cal pellets at a good price at 10 pack rate, slightly more expensive than 22 but more lead per pellet. 1.8p per 22 pellet versus 2.0p per 25 pellet in FTT For any given power, heavier pellet is more efficient at transferring air to power. Edited March 27, 2016 by Stonepark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 For no reason other than personal preference, I've always gone with .22 as apposed to .177. And probably always will. Going to get my tin hat!..... I'm more concerned with the difference in pellet drop between the .22 and the .25 at 40 and 60 yards (As a reference) than the difference in the cost of pellets. Been watching "Ted's Holdover" video's, and done some searching on google, but it keeps coming back with .177 and .22 comparisons. Although "Ted" is most definitely a .25 calibre convert, going by his video's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 the only problem with fac air in .177 is over penetration at shorter distances also weihrauch,s are useless in fac, 1.8p per 22 pellet versus 2.0p per 25 pellet in FTT yes but times it by 5000 ,,,,,, that's the difference, :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Jamie, I am also after an FAC air. I was in Sandwell field sports the others day, they are still keen on the FAC air in .177, I was surprised with their arguments for the smaller caliber. Maybe call them and hear them out....... Most on PW will say 'no way' to the 4.5mm. Malkiserow, did you notice if Sandwell had many FAC air rifles in stock? Used and new?? I'm really tempted to get the .25 FX Bobcat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 the only problem with fac air in .177 is over penetration at shorter distances also weihrauch,s are useless in fac, 1.8p per 22 pellet versus 2.0p per 25 pellet in FTT yes but times it by 5000 ,,,,,, that's the difference, :lol: Over penertration ! So when an lr over penetrates a rabbit it is bad how? Or when a bullet passes through a deer it is bad how?Never ever understood this mindset ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I always thought the issue with .177 and over penetration Under Dog in FAC air was the lack of projectile weight hence not enough shock and trauma if you are not precisely on they tend to drill staight through without dumping much energy into the target. Also you can only boost the power by a bit over sub 12 ft/lb as you run into the issue of pellets destabilising again unless you use the limited number of super heavy .177s available with the risk that your barrel may not like them. I think one of the contributors to an airgun mag tried FAC air in .177 as an experiment once and switched back to .22 as he was getting more runners than he was comfortable with. This is just personal findings but I have had more runners with sub 12 ft/lb .177 than .22 on rabbits it probably is my shooting though. I do limit myself to ranges within my ability I just find .22 hit with more authority, especially on the smaller half grown bunnies. Edited March 28, 2016 by Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Over penertration ! So when an lr over penetrates a rabbit it is bad how? Or when a bullet passes through a deer it is bad how? Never ever understood this mindset ever! UD,, as per usual you are bringing powder burners into the argument when we are talking about pellets ,, no comparison what so ever mind you , what would you know ,,last I heard is you missed a few edit,, mind you there,s no surprise there using a twang gun, your area must be full of wounded rabbits running around Edited March 28, 2016 by evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) UD,, as per usual you are bringing powder burners into the argument when we are talking about pellets ,, no comparison what so ever mind you , what would you know ,,last I heard is you missed a few edit,, mind you there,s no surprise there using a twang gun, your area must be full of wounded rabbits running around Tell oh wise one, what is the difference betwixt a 22 bis mag @ 900 and a 40grn solid sub lr passing through or as you put it over penetrating a rabbits head? Or a pigeon? A 22 bis mag @ 900 is going to pass through a rabbit or pigeon no? So if a 25 does the same, that is bad how? Any projectile that passes through has more potential for great trauma as opposed to one that slows to a dead stop in the tissues or have I got that wrong? Why oh why do so many put so much faith in ft/lbs??? I can subject a bolt and nut to hundreds of ft/lbs but it won't kill anything! Now please oh wise one, if you can't answer with some good reason keep qiet. Edited March 28, 2016 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Tell oh wise one, what is the difference betwixt a 22 bis mag @ 900 and a 40grn solid sub lr passing through or as you put it over penetrating a rabbits head? Or a pigeon? A 22 bis mag @ 900 is going to pass through a rabbit or pigeon no? So if a 25 does the same, that is bad how? Any projectile that passes through has more potential for great trauma as opposed to one that slows to a dead stop in the tissues or have I got that wrong? Why oh why do so many put so much faith in ft/lbs??? I can subject a bolt and nut to hundreds of ft/lbs but it won't kill anything! Now please oh wise one, if you can't answer with some good reason keep qiet. see talking bull again UD, not once did I mention .22, I,m talking .177 at FAC levels over penetrating,, I also didn,t mention a rabbits head , I take it your hungover from too much sauce again and reading things that havn,t even been written, you stick with your sub 12 twang gun and I,ll stick with mine, being aggressive and sarcastic on here towards me just makes you look a fool. enjoy your twanging sir and your day atb Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I always thought the issue with .177 and over penetration Under Dog in FAC air was the lack of projectile weight hence not enough shock and trauma if you are not precisely on they tend to drill staight through without dumping much energy into the target. Also you can only boost the power by a bit over sub 12 ft/lb as you run into the issue of pellets destabilising again unless you use the limited number of super heavy .177s available with the risk that your barrel may not like them. I think one of the contributors to an airgun mag tried FAC air in .177 as an experiment once and switched back to .22 as he was getting more runners than he was comfortable with. This is just personal findings but I have had more runners with sub 12 ft/lb .177 than .22 on rabbits it probably is my shooting though. I do limit myself to ranges within my ability I just find .22 hit with more authority, especially on the smaller half grown bunnies. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I always thought the issue with .177 and over penetration Under Dog in FAC air was the lack of projectile weight hence not enough shock and trauma if you are not precisely on they tend to drill staight through without dumping much energy into the target. Also you can only boost the power by a bit over sub 12 ft/lb as you run into the issue of pellets destabilising again unless you use the limited number of super heavy .177s available with the risk that your barrel may not like them. I think one of the contributors to an airgun mag tried FAC air in .177 as an experiment once and switched back to .22 as he was getting more runners than he was comfortable with. This is just personal findings but I have had more runners with sub 12 ft/lb .177 than .22 on rabbits it probably is my shooting though. I do limit myself to ranges within my ability I just find .22 hit with more authority, especially on the smaller half grown bunnies. zetter , you are 100% correct sir,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Malkiserow, did you notice if Sandwell had many FAC air rifles in stock? Used and new?? I'm really tempted to get the .25 FX Bobcat.... Not many but a handful ....worth calling first before a trip. Try Rugby gun shop as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 UD,, as per usual you are bringing powder burners into the argument when we are talking about pellets ,, no comparison what so ever mind you , what would you know ,,last I heard is you missed a few edit,, mind you there,s no surprise there using a twang gun, your area must be full of wounded rabbits running around So you don't sound acidic your self here then? You know of the ones I missed recently because of my honesty, a virtue you use against me. That speaks not against me Mr ego, sorry evo. Now, let's get this right then, all the rabbits and pigeons I shot in 177 and collected in hand was a failure how? I mean I recall many two holes victims! Would you like me to list all the 177 rifles I hunted with Mr evo? What part of rabbits do you shoot at Mr evo? With your super rifles is it not the heads? If it is the heads do you get over penertration? That above is not scarcasm Mr evo, apart from calling you Mr ego of course, they are logical questions and I would of liked logical reasonable explanations or counter arguments back. However what did return was your usual response glossed over with a sickley false smile akin to a cornered animal that does not want to bite! If your experience limits your ability to come back with any intelligent reply then keep quiet, please, your not helping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 UD I do not need to explain myself as it is getting off topic, you clearly think .177 running FAC will not over penetrate, lets just keep it simple and all I will say is I 100% disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 UD I do not need to explain myself as it is getting off topic, you clearly think .177 running FAC will not over penetrate, lets just keep it simple and all I will say is I 100% disagree That's better. Now we know it is just an opinion of yours. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 now YOU know its my opinion, yet my opinion is factual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 now YOU know its my opinion, yet my opinion is factualNah, you failed to answer any of my questions, especially your practice in the field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Seems we have some actual penetration issues with a couple of members. Does anyone have all three FAC .22 .25 and .177 to do a rabbit penetration test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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