Zetter Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 At the moment I am waiting for land clearance for .22 CF and after a couple of really kind demonstrations on reloading from Fruit loop and Colin off here I had almost set my heart on a .223 for a variation mainly for long range bunny and corvid control with a bit of light foxing + attending some of the garlands shoots. However I keep looking at the .204 Ruger as an alternative. What are the pros and cons of each calibre from those who have experience I know .204 is not deer legal on the smaller species like .223 but to be fair my main permission the deer are dome by someone else and I do vermin control. I will be reloading whichever calibre I go for. Cheers Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 204 ruger is streets in front esspecialy if your a long range shooter, The BC of a 39 grain Blitzking is .284 a .223 to get near that will be closae to twice the mass. Your reloading too its a no brainer .204 is the one you want, fantastic round ideal for all vermin and fox shooting over here, the .204 and the .17 rem are just too often overlooked by UK hunters the ubiquitous .223 gets picked because its popular, but its popular because its a military round not on how it performs as a varminter. >223s work but .204s are light and day in front. Edited June 23, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) and dare I say why stop at a .204 Ruger, there are many twenty cartridges out there that are quite entertaining. Most however are for reloading whilst the Ruger is also a factory round. The reloading route will however give you the full range of options that the 20's provide. the PW gang will give you all the help and advice you need to reload. Edited June 23, 2016 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Cheers Both Until it was mentioned at the PW shoot I hadnt really considered .204 but at the moment apart from the fact I cant do Deer its ticking a lot of boxes for me its flat shooting, the cost of rifles isnt exorbitant looking on gun trader and factory rounds to start off with are available at reasonable cost before I start reloading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 make sure ammo is readily available nearby before taking the plunge with 204. 223, by comparison, is available everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 222 or 223 will still do everything you want with possibly a more plentiful supply of ammo. There's a reason why they're popular. If it helps you choose, start with the uses and terminal ballistics you need. If you want to eat what you shoot (bunnies) then the high MV of the .204 might make mincemeat of the rabbits, even head shot, where a slow loaded heavier 222 or 223 might be preferable. I've shot ground quarry to 340 yds with the 223 and using the SGK bullets loaded fairly slow, there wasn't too much disruption at that range. BC's.....223 in fast twist able to shoot 60g plus: Vmax at 60g has a BC of .265 whereas the 20 cal 32g is less at 0.210, with the 40g coming in at .276, so little different in fact to the .223 but faster shooting. If you don't intend to shoot out past 300 yards then the trajectory differences are neither here nor there, seriously they're not. Zero for 200 yds with the 223 and you have a MPBR of 230 yds, aiming an inch or so low between 80 and 150yds. The Ruger, using 32g Vmax allows for a MPBR of around 275 yards. Not a massive difference but it may swing your decision one way or the other. Don't forget that you're also at the mercy of the wind which becomes a significant consideration when shooting at a quarry with a small kill area much past 150 yds whichever calibre you're using. Less so to 200 yds with the .204 simply due to its higher initial MV. Edited June 23, 2016 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsy18 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Got 223 and 204 ,use 204 for daytime and 223 with nightvision,prefer the 204 aim and shoot to 250yds . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 222 or 223 will still do everything you want with possibly a more plentiful supply of ammo. There's a reason why they're popular. If it helps you choose, start with the uses and terminal ballistics you need. If you want to eat what you shoot (bunnies) then the high MV of the .204 might make mincemeat of the rabbits, even head shot, where a slow loaded heavier 222 or 223 might be preferable. I've shot ground quarry to 340 yds with the 223 and using the SGK bullets loaded fairly slow, there wasn't too much disruption at that range. BC's.....223 in fast twist able to shoot 60g plus: Vmax at 60g has a BC of .265 whereas the 20 cal 32g is less at 0.210, with the 40g coming in at .276, so little different in fact to the .223 but faster shooting. If you don't intend to shoot out past 300 yards then the trajectory differences are neither here nor there, seriously they're not. Zero for 200 yds with the 223 and you have a MPBR of 230 yds, aiming an inch or so low between 80 and 150yds. The Ruger, using 32g Vmax allows for a MPBR of around 275 yards. Not a massive difference but it may swing your decision one way or the other. Don't forget that you're also at the mercy of the wind which becomes a significant consideration when shooting at a quarry with a small kill area much past 150 yds whichever calibre you're using. Less so to 200 yds with the .204 simply due to its higher initial MV. Maureen M she was a nice lass bonny looking good figure not very tall , and not very good at long distance running. She like a .223 would have done anything you needed i guess. But just like maureen the .223 is not a girl you want to take home for tea with mum. .204 is like dusky beauty you simply love to take out every night untill the early hours , need i say more.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) ah yes...223 is rather pedestrian why shoot the .223 when you can overbore it's case with a 20.Tac or .20 Prac, or for something entirely different the .20 PPC. Zetter - grab a cuppa and spend an idle hour on the internet looking at Todd Kindler's Woodchuck Den site in the US. Very nice guy...but you'll come away wanting a .17 Javelina............. We are teasing abit about the .223 but we go to such trouble to get a FAC is this country that we need to take full advantage of every choice that is out there. The .223 will be a fine choice but it tends to be an almost automatic one. We've just opened a whole raincoat of under the counter alternatives............ Edited June 23, 2016 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) That is true and variety is the spice of life but as with a lot of these hyper velocity rounds, whether one wants to eat what remains usually has to figure somewhere, as does barrel life if being cost conscious, hence the "pedestrian" .223 with it's measly 3150fps (60g pill) tends to be all one needs. What one needs is of course not always the same thing as what one has access to and what may tick other boxes, as already mentioned. It is often a choice of the head when the heart may be screaming "excitement and lasers!" in which case there's a whole bundle of calibres to consider. Chuck Hawke's site has a pretty good summary of the more common calibres pretty readily available today...worth a gander. Edited June 23, 2016 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 One of the problems, perhaps the only one, is the lack of used rifles about. I've had an empty slot for .204 for months now and been looking for a complete outfit on the used market. Want traditional wooden stock and blued barrel complete with scope and mod, looked for used just to save the hassle of buying everything separate. Nothing about near me at all, well not in good condition anyway so take that in to consideration if buying used. Looks like I'll be buying new and making the decision of what rifle, what scope and what mod You may not be so indecisive as me and know exactly what you're after :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) That is true and variety is the spice of life but as with a lot of these hyper velocity rounds, whether one wants to eat what remains usually has to figure somewhere, as does barrel life if being cost conscious, hence the "pedestrian" .223 with it's measly 3150fps (60g pill) tends to be all one needs. What one needs is of course not always the same thing as what one has access to and what may tick other boxes, as already mentioned. It is often a choice of the head when the heart may be screaming "excitement and lasers!" in which case there's a whole bundle of calibres to consider. Chuck Hawke's site has a pretty good summary of the more common calibres pretty readily available today...worth a gander. Well - it doesn't matter what CF you shoot a rabbit with as the results will be similar in effect. Crows or foxes aren't for the table (this century) and the .20 Tac/Prac is easier on the throat than the straight .204. As the OP is wanting to reload anyway and the chance to have something a little different is there it does no harm to offer the .20's up. Edited June 23, 2016 by LeadWasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really can't fault my .223 but I wish I could follow the shot sometimes . I heard you can with .204 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really can't fault my .223 but I wish I could follow the shot sometimes . I heard you can with .204 Buy a .2506 its like watching telly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really can't fault my .223 but I wish I could follow the shot sometimes . I heard you can with .204 Try a nerf gun, you can watch those right onto the target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Cheers for all the information all really useful. I have checked with my local RFD and he does stock .204 and to be honest I am really tempted if the ground clearances goes through as expected and I like the idea of something a little bit different. RodP I must admit after looking round I really fancy one of the new Howa's mini actions in .204 as I really like the tactile stocks they have on them and I like the look of the whole rifle. The bonus is I currently have a MTC genesis as glass waiting to go on a new gun so its a case of get the rifle and a mod although with TVPs current variation rate I will probably have a few months to drool over stuff . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Cheers for all the information all really useful. I have checked with my local RFD and he does stock .204 and to be honest I am really tempted if the ground clearances goes through as expected and I like the idea of something a little bit different. RodP I must admit after looking round I really fancy one of the new Howa's mini actions in .204 as I really like the tactile stocks they have on them and I like the look of the whole rifle. The bonus is I currently have a MTC genesis as glass waiting to go on a new gun so its a case of get the rifle and a mod although with TVPs current variation rate I will probably have a few months to drool over stuff . Remember its a 204 Ruger and rugers are not that bad. i have a 7mm mag an old 77 mk 2 nice little rifle to hunt with i like it. , just thought id mention rugers thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Cheers for all the information all really useful. I have checked with my local RFD and he does stock .204 and to be honest I am really tempted if the ground clearances goes through as expected and I like the idea of something a little bit different. RodP I must admit after looking round I really fancy one of the new Howa's mini actions in .204 as I really like the tactile stocks they have on them and I like the look of the whole rifle. The bonus is I currently have a MTC genesis as glass waiting to go on a new gun so its a case of get the rifle and a mod although with TVPs current variation rate I will probably have a few months to drool over stuff . I like the old fashioned look, and that leaves me a bit screwed nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I like the old fashioned look, and that leaves me a bit screwed nowadays What about a ruger NO1.V not an old gun but classic farquersonesque...IS THAT A WORD... Styling . And they can be made to shoot pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I've recently purchased a Howa 1500 Varmint in .204 calibre. It's brilliant, and will be my 'new' Fox rifle. I've owned .223, .22-250 and .243. (my fox rifle at the moment)All were very good and fit for the job. I am impressed with the .204 though, and I've reloaded some ammunition, which is averaging 4000fps. Very fast and flat shooting. This is with a 32gr bullet. I plan to test some 39gr ones soon and see what results I can achieve. I'm looking forward to using my .204 on long range (175+yards) ground feeding Corvid's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Try a nerf gun, you can watch those right onto the target Limited range tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) All as always some good solid opinions from the pigeon watch massive. Barring Beds kicking back the land for Centre Fire I am virtually sold on .204 as it suits what I need it for and I love the look of the new Howa. Meat damage isnt a massive issue on the ground I am going to use it on as a lot of shots tend to be with NV on bunnies/ fox in the middle of big fields and finding them can be nightmare as I cant really go stomping all over the crop just for a bunny. The other stuff is crows and foxes and I doubt I would be that hungry! Still probably got till December to nake my mind up totally as variation speed isnt exactly two weeks at the moment. Nathan I have a nerf gun or two dont think you would get it conditioned for fox but it may be worth a go Edited June 24, 2016 by Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I've had both a 204 and 223 My own opinion I preferred the 223, on the first night of lamping with a 204 I had 2 foxes run after being shot... I got it into my head that the bullet just zipped thru them at such a speed it didn't cause enough damage, I never had a runner with my 223... But the 204 on crows at 150 meters was amazing, they just exploded...so I just used it for corvids.. I sold it after a few months... I'm more than sure the 204 is more than enough to drop foxes but I was put off after the runners.. It was proberly operator error on my part but I didn't want to see anymore foxes jump up in the air biting themselves then bolt off up the fields... But the 223 just dropped them on the spot... I've now gone to a 243 for everything and a 6.5x55 for larger deer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 What about a ruger NO1.V not an old gun but classic farquersonesque...IS THAT A WORD... Styling . And they can be made to shoot pretty good. Nah, don't like the under lever look of it (if that's the one I'm looking at) Also single shot ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Nah, don't like the under lever look of it (if that's the one I'm looking at) Also single shot ? Ok i get that they are not for everyone, but another option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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