Struggling with Rescue Lab

[Alex C]

Hi All,

 

Am after some advice regarding a Chocolate Lab we have rehomed. We got him at 11 months old and he has been great with the kids and was really good on walks. His recall was spot on and he was generally pretty easy to walk.

 

Fast forward to where we have now had him for nearly a year, his recall has gone to pot and walking him is a chore that the Mrs wont even entertain anymore. I have tried everything I can think of with him. Calling him back for regular praise and a biscuit, doing stuff with him in the house / garden. It just seems that he is doing what I want him to do right up until the point he decides he cant be bothered or there is something more interesting. He will dash off to ''meet'' other dogs every time he sees one, which I hate.

 

I want to bring him along on shoot days as he hates being left at home when I take my other Lab with me. I had him out a couple of weeks ago and he was fine, however yesterday it was as if he had ear plugs in and the end result was I had to leave him in the car for the last two drives. I wont run the risk of ruining someone's day shooting for the dogs sake

 

Is this just because he is young and eventually he will fall into line, or is it just going to get worse ? I'll be honest I nearly lost my voice bawling at him yesterday, which i'm sure none of the other beaters enjoyed listening to.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[JDog]

Others will have better ideas I am sure, but mine would be to stop bawling and use a whistle.

[Footu]

it should fall into place if it gets to see others working and learn from them. at one year mine was dishonourably discharged from the local retriever club and asked not to come back. she now comes shooting with me no big issues that are all down to her.it kind of clicked when she was two. still runs in, still hunts foxes until she cant cross a fence somewhere then returns and still thinks every ball on the planet is hers. she may let you play with it for a while, but its still hers and she will take it back.

 

she will hunt,flush and retrieve very well. she will also give me a sour look when I miss.

 

but I love her and don't mind these minor faults.

[Daveo26]

Stop taking him shooting for a start,

A dog you can't control on a walk would be a huge liability on a shoot day.

Rein him in, start with a long line if you need to.

Get his recall and heel work 100% before he's allowed on another shoot day

it should fall into place if it gets to see others working and learn from them. at one year mine was dishonourably discharged from the local retriever club and asked not to come back. she now comes shooting with me no big issues that are all down to her.it kind of clicked when she was two. still runs in, still hunts foxes until she cant cross a fence somewhere then returns and still thinks every ball on the planet is hers. she may let you play with it for a while, but its still hers and she will take it back.

 

she will hunt,flush and retrieve very well. she will also give me a sour look when I miss.

 

but I love her and don't mind these minor faults.

Minor faults?

You consider a dog doing as it pleases a minor fault?

[UKPoacher]

This is going to take some time and effort on your part and ideally working with someone who knows what they are doing to put you on the right lines.

 

Basically you need to break the dog's preoccupation and then immediately recall the dog and praise it and / or reward it for the successfully recall. This has to be done in such a way that the dog doesn't pre-empt the training routine and in a gradually progressive way so that you start with easy recalls and gradually work your way towards more difficult recalls such as when the dog is totally preoccupied with something to the point of chasing after it. It is easy IF you know how to structure the training program. If you don't then you are wasting your time so I would advise seeking professional help. Six or seven lessons should get you in a situation when you can continue the training yourself.

[Walker570]

Sorry to say it, but no other way. You've failed not the dog. I believe what you(maybe wife) have done is allowed this behaviour to develop and now you have to go back to basics.

Start from the bottom and work back up. Short lead initially, walking to heal, stopping/sit, walk again stop/sit with a sharp tug on the short lead to make him know you are the boss. No more than 10 to 15 minutes of this at any one time, but do not stand any stupidity at any time. If he starts to ignore, then back on the short/very short lead. I personally have never given tit bits to my dogs for doing as they were told. Praise from me was always enough as right from day one 10 to 12 weeks old my dogs knew I was the Pack Boss.

By all means go find a GOOD trainer who may be able to help, but I think if you really intend making the dog into a great hunting companion, you have to do it yourself, he has to enjoy doing what you are telling him.

Heh!! It ain't easy and does take a long time and much effort sometimes, particularly when they think they have become the Pack Boss.

 

I wish you well. My very best dog ever, was a chocky lab and we were very close pals at all times, but he would jump through fire for me for that reason, not because I beat hell out of him or zapped him with an electric collar.

 

As said above, get him on the whistle as well.. Long lead 30ft plus and make him sit every time you blow it. Then a peep peep peep and bring him back to heel. Basics but takes time and effort.

[jayDT10]

Stop taking it on shoot days and train it. you must get the basics into any dog before it goes anywhere near a shoot.

[E.w.]

Hi All,

 

Am after some advice regarding a Chocolate Lab we have rehomed. We got him at 11 months old and he has been great with the kids and was really good on walks. His recall was spot on and he was generally pretty easy to walk.

 

Fast forward to where we have now had him for nearly a year, his recall has gone to pot and walking him is a chore that the Mrs wont even entertain anymore. I have tried everything I can think of with him. Calling him back for regular praise and a biscuit, doing stuff with him in the house / garden. It just seems that he is doing what I want him to do right up until the point he decides he cant be bothered or there is something more interesting. He will dash off to ''meet'' other dogs every time he sees one, which I hate.

 

I want to bring him along on shoot days as he hates being left at home when I take my other Lab with me. I had him out a couple of weeks ago and he was fine, however yesterday it was as if he had ear plugs in and the end result was I had to leave him in the car for the last two drives. I wont run the risk of ruining someone's day shooting for the dogs sake

 

Is this just because he is young and eventually he will fall into line, or is it just going to get worse ? I'll be honest I nearly lost my voice bawling at him yesterday, which i'm sure none of the other beaters enjoyed listening to.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

Alex please don't take offence this is a tongue in cheek comment, but read your first paragraph and think on, remember these words dogs are highly intelligent and humans can be a little stupid. Edited December 11, 2016 by E.w.

[Alex C]

Maybe I talked him and me down a bit. I'm not a total novice having spent time with a decent trainer and trained one dog from a pup to a decent standard already. What I am struggling with is the 'He will only listen when he wants to attitude'.

 

Bit of background to this dog. He was taken from a guy who thought it was perfectly acceptable to keep it locked in a tiny cage all day, and beat the proverbial out of it when he felt like it. He was very underweight when I got him and hadn't been socialised very well. I believe we are his 4th home as the previous 3 were complete idiots. Its taken a long time to get him settled at home with my other dog and kids. He was very nervous and still has bouts where he can be unsettled.

 

Due to this, I have tried be very careful how I started training him. The only reason I use treats on this one is he responds well to them. If I call him back in as I would my other dog and make him sit, he thinks he has done wrong and cowers like he is waiting for a beating. I would never normally bother with them.

 

Things weren't going too badly, he now walks to heel on a lead and off, and was responding really well to a recall and a stop whistle and had started working on hand signals. Its just in the last month or two its gone to pot. He wont be coming out on shoot days anymore, I was only taking him as he was beside himself being left without my other dog.

 

As far as failing the dog ? Its taken a long time to get him to trust me, and he still doesn't completely which I think is to be expected. Wont be going anywhere near a shock collar as someone mentioned, it would finish him for good. I have however taken him from being a bit of a wreck to a halfway confident, lovable out going family pet. If I can get him to a point where I can take him shooting, great, if not he is still a great pet. But for him to do this I need to get him to a point where he can be called back when required so the wife Is happy to take him out when she wants to.

 

Maybe I have given him a bit too much rope due to his background ?

 

But from the above I need to

 

Stop taking him out on the shoot - Done, wont be coming again

Back to basics with heel work and lead work - he isn't too bad at either but I guess it wont hurt maybe try him on a long line at some point

Try and break the preoccupation when he goes off on one - not too sure how to do this but will have a think

Pro Trainer - Already spoken to the guy I worked with on my other dog but he wont be able to do anything for me for a while as he's working all season

 

Thanks for the advice so far guy, keep it coming

[ips]

Sounds to me like you have done a good job with a dog that has issues (poor thing) its sounds like a blip keep going and give the dog a chance. I am sure you will turn it around

[Alex C]

Alex please don't take offence this is a tongue in cheek comment, but read your first paragraph and think on, remember these words dogs are highly intelligent and humans can be a little stupid.

 

No offence taken. It does look to anyone who reads my post that we have 'Untrained' him. Maybe we have to an extent. He used to be easy to walk because he wouldnt really leave our sides. If he did we would call him and he would come back no problem but always looked like he'd done something wrong and cowered a bit. The problem was he was a bag of nerves !!

 

Now we seem to have a lovely confident dog now who is a million times better settled, but has just got it into his head that he isn't going to bother listening anymore.

 

I really don't want to have to be that bloke with a daft lab on and extendable lead !!

[UKPoacher]

Having read your second post I am now more certain that the training I suggested is the way to go. You need to break the dog's preoccupation and get it to focus more on you.

 

Best of luck.

[Alex C]

UK Poacher, do you have any tips as to how I could achieve this ? It is something that I know I need to do. I did think a water bottle with some rocks in it to make a shaker and throw it towards him when he stops listening ? I guess something that makes a good loud noise which isn't a whistle may work ?

 

He will always come back eventually, but in his own sweet time !

[Walker570]

Alex. Fine , now I have some history. I also took on an abused dog at 10 months. A GSP this time and he had been abused by the wife of the guy who initially purchased him as a puppy. The poor dog did not even know his name and within days we had changed that to Mole which he responded to within days BUT for weeks he had great difficulty in accepting my wife wouldn't kick the doo doo out of him. Through kind gentle handling by both of us he was soon crawling up onto her lap in front of the fire, so it can be done.

I still go back to my initial suggestion training wise. I have a long tracking lead which fits onto a tracking harness which I used for tracking wounded deer with Mole, even when he was trained fully. Nothing silly or stupid about it. Very often young pointers on the grouse moor have a plastic washing line trailing behind where the handler can walk up and take control when required until the dog become totally reliable. Such a length would work for your dog. A smart tug will make him realise you still have contact. Throwing the bottle is not on and will probably incite him to chase it or something. You need to be able to tell the dog to do as he is told and in my view a long or short lead is the best way of transmitting this. I am not talking one of those silly retractable extendable thingies, just a long cheap Aldi washing line would suffice. Then perseverance. Mole came round to being a killing machine within 12 months and found me a lot of birds of his short six years of life. He died suddenly of heart failure during a seizure. Don't give up. I am certain you can be successful.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Walker570

[UKPoacher]

The distraction technique can involve many different methods including stones in bottles, a tug on a trailing line or even the e-collar. The key to it is consistency and knowing when to progress and when to take a step or two back. Also it is vitally important that the dog does not pick up signals that allow him to pre-empt the training. In short it needs someone who knows what they are doing. The key element is that it must be done as soon as the dog disobeys a command and then followed up by another recall command and a reward for his responding. The training starts where the dog is only moderately preoccupied and gradually builds up to being able to stop and recall the dog when it is in full flight after a hare or other animal.

[Walker570]

UKP plus one, spot on.

[Alex C]

Thanks guys, I will have a try with a long line first. I'll pinch the wifes washing line and hopefully she wont realise until spring !

 

I have had a chat with the trainer I used with my other dog and hopefully he will be able to have a look at him over Xmas.

 

Fingers crossed I haven't left it too late and I can get on top of this.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[UKPoacher]

It is never too late to train a dog. They respond to training even in old age. The main thing you have to consider is why the dog changed its behaviour after you got it. A dog only does what it is allowed to do within the parameters set by the owners. If you have no rules then you will have a totally untrained dog.

 

There will be something you or your wife are doing that allows the dog to misbehave. You got it at a crucial time when it was going from adolescence to adulthood and as it became more mature it took liberties that you did not curtail. As you have another dog that dos not behave in the same way then you need to seriously examine your attitudes and routines with both dogs because there is likely to be something you are doing with the second dog that you don't with your older one and the new dog is exploiting that.

 

Best of luck.

[Savhmr]

As UKP says, most dogs irrespective of age, unless there's something seriously wrong with them can be trained. I've had a fair few dogs over the years and only ever had one that I couldn't work with. I currently have a very strong willed dog who was a nightmare when he first came to us. A lovely animal, but willful and would ignore commands and had a tendency to run off. He now walks beside me to heel unless I tell him he can go ahead, sits, fetches, returns, lies, stands, all to command.

 

It's usually a question of the dog learning their place and ground rules being set and enforced rigorously. Remember, they are there solely for your convenience, you are not there for theirs. It seems harsh, but they need to be drilled as if they're on national service, made to sit when they don't expect or want to, to lay down, stand, stay or whatever, all at your whim. When training on the whistle, every time the dog refused to come back on the first blast, I wouldn't allow him to come in his own time on his terms. I would march over to him, grab him by the scruff and take him to where I had been stood and make him sit. A few repeats of that and he soon got the message. We had a few issues with neighbours and the dog sticking his head through a hedge (secured so he couldn't push through) as he'd chased their cats from the garden and was looking to where they'd gone. The only way I could stop the dog from going near the hedge, and also cure him of running off when out, was to resort to an E collar (more people use them that I reckon care to admit). Negative reinforcement follows a refusal to obey a command in reasonable time, and the dog given a second chance with a repeat of the command after the initial corrective action. Praise is given where they respond.

 

On the odd occasion where at the start of a walk, the dog has become unruly, it's back home and into his cage for an hour, walk terminated early. Only had to do that twice. He soon learnt. Dogs aren't stupid and do have more reasoning ability than we often credit them with.

 

As has already been said by others, the important thing is consistency and once the rules are set (and there must be rules, inside the house, outside in the garden and out walking or shooting) , they must be enforced every time or strong willed animals given an inch will take a mile every single time and eventually become untrained. I don't believe in beating or harming dogs (owners who beat dogs might want to think about being beaten themselves, and think how they might respond to a beating) but am a believer in firm discipline, rules and consistency.