ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 There was an incident near where I grew up, probably nearly 20/25 years ago. A man, well known dodgy character. Previous arrests for various violent offences and assorted thefts. A few short custodials and a lot of community orders. Walks into pub carrying a black bin bag with a long object inside. Proceeds to get tanked up. Starts spouting about having a shotgun he shouldn't, how his estranged wife is a total **** and has it coming etc..... Landlord gets concerned and asks him if the shotgun is in the bag. He is told it is. Landlord asks him to leave and rings the police. He knows the chaps name so the police are told this. Armed police respond and intercept the chap a mile or so down the road. He is carrying the black bin bag under his arm, similar to how you would carry a shotgun. He is belligerent, sounding off against the cops, his wife etc. Says he has a shotgun and starts waving the bag around . Points it like a gun and starts to move towards the police. As an armed officer would you take the shot? Yeah we all know about that case. A man who was shot by police while carrying a table leg which was mistaken for a gun, was unlawfully killed, an inquest jury ruled today.Harry Stanley, 46, a painter and decorator of Hackney, east London, was shot in the head and hand by police marksmen on September 22 1999. Two Metropolitan police officers fired the shots after mistakenly being informed that Mr Stanley had a sawn-off shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 That was a decision that was subsequently over turned.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The officers who shot Harry Stanley were cleared after new forensic evidence came to light so they did nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 That was a decision that was subsequently over turned.... Indeed it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Beat me to it lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Also, you never answered the question about whether you would take the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Instead of inferring that most police firearms incidents are discovered not to be and not having any facts to back that up, or telling us that you bet that there were more than the 7 declared actual use of firearms No again making things up, i said i bet there were more negligent discharges than the 7 recorded firings, not that they were not declared. My point how do these highly trained police response units have so many negligent discharges, fair question i think. PS Grow up and stop the name calling, maybe it would suit you for me to respond and get the thread closed maybe if i was in the play ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 No again making things up, i said i bet there were more negligent discharges than the 7 recorded firings, not that they were not declared. My point how do these highly trained police response units have so many negligent discharges, fair question i think. PS Grow up and stop the name calling, maybe it would suit you for me to respond and get the thread closed maybe if i was in the play ground. So have you any proof of this allegation of negligent discharges? If not then it is just another attempt to undermine the police who you claim to support so wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Also, you never answered the question about whether you would take the shot. That would depend on the circumstances, no one can answer that unless they were there, but if i did take the shot i would expect it to be fully investigated and if i got it wrong then i would have to face the consequences. If i had an issue with that i would have not volunteered for to be armed in the first place. Thats why i have an issue when armed police and some others cry and threaten to spit out the dummy when they are investigated, what do they want freedom to shoot members of the public with no questions asked. Firearms officers are threatening to down their weapons after a former policeman was charged with murdering a suspected gangster, a police chief said yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Also, you never answered the question about whether you would take the shot.Armed cops make split second decisions that have the potential to effect hundreds of lives and must decide whether to take life to save others, ordinance seems to think this is easy and critiques them after the event with all the intel hindsight brings, yet he can't answer a simple question, I'm guessing it's probably because he hasn't the foggiest idea of anything to do with armed policing despite him pretending the contrary, I wonder if his real name is Mitty, first name Walt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 So have you any proof of this allegation of negligent discharges? If not then it is just another attempt to undermine the police who you claim to support so wholeheartedly. The Met even managed to have more than the PSNI who are armed on and off duty. ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE LEAGUE TABLE: Metropolitan Police 56 Northern Ireland 31 Bedfordshire 3 Devon and Cornwall 2 Lincolnshire Police 2 Cheshire Police have used their weapons 21 times in 'animal destructions' in three years - more than any other force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 That would depend on the circumstances, no one can answer that unless they were there, but if i did take the shot i would expect it to be fully investigated and if i got it wrong then i would have to face the consequences. If i had an issue with that i would have not volunteered for to be armed in the first place. Thats why i have an issue when armed police and some others cry and threaten to spit out the dummy when they are investigated, what do they want freedom to shoot members of the public with no questions asked. Hard to answer when the event hast already taken place isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) I wonder if his real name is Mitty, first name Walt? I will write that one down, hilarious. Edited February 19, 2017 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Armed cops make split second decisions that have the potential to effect hundreds of lives and must decide whether to take life to save others, ordinance seems to think this is easy and critiques them after the event with all the intel hindsight brings, yet he can't answer a simple question, I'm guessing it's probably because he hasn't the foggiest idea of anything to do with armed policing despite him pretending the contrary, I wonder if his real name is Mitty, first name Walt? We just see it as policing here not armed policing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The Met even managed to have more than the PSNI who are armed on and off duty. Alot of these discharges are probably on the range when they're practicing skills and drills, a bit different from a round of clays, but don't let that get in the way of a good story. We just see it as policing here not armed policing. Sorry, you haven't got the foggiest idea about policing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Alot of these discharges are probably on the range when they're practicing skills and drills, a bit different from a round of clays, but don't let that get in the way of a good story. Sorry, you haven't got the foggiest idea about policing. So N/Ds on the range are OK interesting view. Still doesn't answer the question how the MET with less armed officers who hand in their firearms after their shift managed to have more N/Ds than the PSNI who have their firearms 24/7. Edited February 19, 2017 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The Met even managed to have more than the PSNI who are armed on and off duty. Those figures are several years out of date and cover a period of years, not just one. Is that the best you can do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Those figures are several years out of date and cover a period of years, not just one. Is that the best you can do? Does that not apply to the PSNI figures as well, think about it. When and over whatever time period doesn't change the facts. PS A post without throwing insults well done, teachers gold stars for you. Edited February 19, 2017 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 That would depend on the circumstances, no one can answer that unless they were there, but if i did take the shot i would expect it to be fully investigated and if i got it wrong then i would have to face the consequences. If i had an issue with that i would have not volunteered for to be armed in the first place. Thats why i have an issue when armed police and some others cry and threaten to spit out the dummy when they are investigated, what do they want freedom to shoot members of the public with no questions asked. He gave you the circumstances. You have ducked the issue. And the officers were investigated in court and in disciplinary hearings so what is your point? As for your comment about police in Northern Ireland being armed and so just call it policing not armed policing only you seems not to be able to understand the difference. I was a dog handler, but I didn't take my dog out of the van to every job and I didn't see AFOs unholstering their weapons when dealing with routine traffic violations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Dose that not apply to the PSNI figures as well, think about it. Go back to what you originally posted. You claimed that there were more accidental discharges than authorised discharges in the2015-16 period. Asked to prove it and you come up with stats that have no relevance on the 2015-16 figures that you challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) He gave you the circumstances. You have ducked the issue. He's had over two and a half hours to decide now, an armed copy might have to decide in a fraction of a second, maybe he's realised it's not as easy in the real world instead of playing cop on his play station. Edited February 19, 2017 by 12gauge82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) As for your comment about police in Northern Ireland being armed and so just call it policing not armed policing only you seems not to be able to understand the difference. I was a dog handler, but I didn't take my dog out of the van to every job and I didn't see AFOs unholstering their weapons when dealing with routine traffic violations. Its just police here not armed police or unarmed police there is no distinction made. I find it interesting how highly trained Armed response units, the MET for example have more N/Ds than police with a week or two's basics training on firearms, any ideas. ? I was a dog handler, but I didn't take my dog out of the van to every job I hope you didn't have the same attitude with members of the public that disagreed with you, name calling etc. Edited February 19, 2017 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Its just police here not armed police or unarmed police there is no distinction made. So what about the Armed Response Units in the PSNI. Do they just get the basic two weeks training or is there a distinction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Its just police here not armed police or unarmed police there is no distinction made. I find it interesting how highly trained Armed response units, the MET for example have more N/Ds than police with a week or two's basics training on firearms, any ideas. ? Would that explain why over half of the discharges were at home whilst 'practicing' ? There is also a difference between a 'negligent' and an 'unathorised' but under that stats it is not made clear - The PSNI seem to be a bit more on the ball with their figures (with a lot being 'negligent') Edited February 19, 2017 by ph5172 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Hey Ordnance, with the stance that you're taking in this thread, would you admit then that the soldiers who killed innocent civilians on bloody sunday should be subjected to the full extent of the law? Would you also admit that the state funded and supported hit squads (military reaction force to name but one) who murdered and maimed innocent civilians should also be held individually accountable? I'm interested in your response here. Lets not play tit for tat though. We all know about ira atrocities, so don't remind us all of them. For once, just answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts