CaptC Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Does anyone have a theory, or better still know why, a dog (I'm talking about gun dogs) when told to sit and wait for the "go back" command for a retrieve will spin once sometimes twice when told to "go back?" My Lab will spin around and look very confused then something kicks in and he's off and will retrieve from quite considerable distances! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Could be down to age and inexperience. But if it keeps doing it then it will be come habitual. If you aren't trialling the it shouldn't be a problem, but if you really want to cure it then you will have to refresh the go back command from right in front of the dog where you can correct the problem. Then, after a session or two of successes, gradually move back a bit at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Thanks for the reply. He's not my first dog but he is young (just turning three) and I would have trialed him if he had not picked up a tendency to occasionally whine from a lunatic cocker that the Gun had tied to a tree!! He's not the first dog I have seen "spin" - Bumble will do it even with me standing in front of him (to see if he will not do it) slightly crouched with arm extended in the direction of the retrieve waiting for the command. He's rock steady and will also stop dead on the stop whistle. I should add that if he is left sitting and I walk away a fair distance then give him the command he still does it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 You should try and correct it when you are close to him and then gradually work back. You won't be able to stop him doing it at a distance until you can correct his behaviour close up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 If I stand next to him with him facing me he still does it - I'm not worried about it at all - Just want to know why dogs do it? As said in previously, I have had dogs that have done the same "spin" and quite often see other owners scratching their heads wondering why their mutt does a 360 spin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Well, why not stop him then you won't have to wonder about it? You have to intervene to modify a dog's behaviour otherwise it will continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 What stop him mid spin? His little brain would get very confused! As said, its not stopping the spin - its why they do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 If you aren't trialling the it shouldn't be a problem I can think of one very well know Champion that was a spinner, he sired a considerable number of pups & his genes will appear somewhere in most modern day work bred dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I can think of one very well know Champion that was a spinner, he sired a considerable number of pups & his genes will appear somewhere in most modern day work bred dogs. But why did he spin?? What's going on in the dogs brain - Is it to "navigate?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Spinning and whining can be a sign of insecurity and lack of faith / understanding in what the handler wants them to do and are often connected... Edited February 21, 2017 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Spinning and whining can be a sign of insecurity and lack of faith / understanding in what the handler wants them to do and are often connected... I can see what you are saying re understanding as you can almost see his brain working out where the dummy/retrieve might be. As to faith, I would say he is the most devoted dog I have had except for a Springer many years ago. The whining comes from anticipation and and an ******* cocker that the next Gun tied to a tree whilst he shot. The poor thing went ballistic and upset all dogs in earshot! I should point out that the "spin" only happens on a "go back" command. It must be something to do with their thought process at the time as they try and get their bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I can see what you are saying re understanding as you can almost see his brain working out where the dummy/retrieve might be. As to faith, I would say he is the most devoted dog I have had except for a Springer many years ago. The whining comes from anticipation and and an ******* cocker that the next Gun tied to a tree whilst he shot. The poor thing went ballistic and upset all dogs in earshot! I should point out that the "spin" only happens on a "go back" command. It must be something to do with their thought process at the time as they try and get their bearings? He is just wound up with excitement,if not trialling do not let it worry you.. As he ages,he will probably grow out of it.. I bet he goes like a bullet when told to go BACK.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 He is just wound up with excitement,if not trialling do not let it worry you.. As he ages,he will probably grow out of it.. I bet he goes like a bullet when told to go BACK.. More like a rocket! I'm not worried by it just curious as to why they do it? His "nose" for finding game is amazing and his marking is better than mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochastorm Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Does he spin the same way, ie. If given a left hand back does he spin on his right shoulder, and vice versa for a right hand back. If he only spins the one way then keep giving him the opposite command until the habit stops. Personally if he was spinning I would stop him, correct him, and not allow him to have the retrieve until he stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Does he spin the same way, ie. If given a left hand back does he spin on his right shoulder, and vice versa for a right hand back. If he only spins the one way then keep giving him the opposite command until the habit stops. Personally if he was spinning I would stop him, correct him, and not allow him to have the retrieve until he stops. Interesting theory! Thank you. Thinking about it he does spin the same way - anti clockwise. He only does one revolution but if he is a long way back he might do two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochastorm Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 If given a left hand back does he turn to his right (clockwise), or does he still spin the other way. If he only turns the one way when sent back then a change of angles may assist. You move so that you are at a more diagonal position and send him on. If he is spinning anti clockwise then face the dog with the dummy/bird directly in line beyond the dog. You now step away to the left and send him with a left hand on. I know that this is not strictly a back, but if it's a marked retrieve the dog knows where it is going and is sent out. You can also change the command to back. Keep changing your angle to the dog until it stops spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 He doesn't spin every time going back - Its only when its a long distance retrieve - 60 - 80 - 100 yards plus. Thanks again for the advice but as yet there has only been two theories as to why dogs do it? I'm sure its a thought process as he has lost sight of the retrieve. On a marked retrieve he does not spin. I will certainly try the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I have no idea why he might spin but if you are not fussed by it it sounds like something else to make you smile on a shoot day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I have no idea why he might spin but if you are not fussed by it it sounds like something else to make you smile on a shoot day. Absolutely! He is a pleasure (most of the time) to take out either shooting or picking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Spinning and whining can be a sign of insecurity and lack of faith / understanding in what the handler wants them to do and are often connected... Yes, and all those factor into an equation that reads "pressure." The OP asked why only on "Back!"? Because that's where the pressure is - as perceived by the dog. Next to vocalising ("squeaking" in your parlance) in anticipation of a retrieve, spinning when running blinds is one of the most difficult habits to break. Thanks again for the advice but as yet there has only been two theories as to why dogs do it? I'm sure its a thought process as he has lost sight of the retrieve. On a marked retrieve he does not spin. On blind retrieves there's no "retrieve" to lose sight of. You can back off running blinds for a while and then when you reintroduce the concept start at shorter distances and gradually lengthen them. Might work but again see above for cautionary comment. I've known a dozen "spinners" - all on blinds (none belonging to me by the way) - and two were partly "cured," the others essentially fell by the wayside as trial dogs. In any event, good luck. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Yes, and all those factor into an equation that reads "pressure." The OP asked why only on "Back!"? Because that's where the pressure is - as perceived by the dog. Next to vocalising ("squeaking" in your parlance) in anticipation of a retrieve, spinning when running blinds is one of the most difficult habits to break. On blind retrieves there's no "retrieve" to lose sight of. You can back off running blinds for a while and then when you reintroduce the concept start at shorter distances and gradually lengthen them. Might work but again see above for cautionary comment. I've known a dozen "spinners" - all on blinds (none belonging to me by the way) - and two were partly "cured," the others essentially fell by the wayside as trial dogs. In any event, good luck. MG MG What excellent advice - I will shorten the retrieves and, as you say they are all on the "go back" command. I'm not worried by it and still await a good reason. Thanks CaptC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Phew CaptC that's saved me a shed load of typing 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Phew CaptC that's saved me a shed load of typing Thanks to everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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