stalker58 Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hi All...I don't know if anybody would be interested..but I am looking to breed my dog,He is a Big Springer 28kg, like they used to be when I was a youngster..he has been used for wildfowling from a pup and he is now 5 years old..I would like another dog pup from him, He is as brave as a honey badger and swims like a Polar bear, and never gives up on a retrieve in water...My wife says he got feet like Bilbo Baggins...So if you are Interested In my Jack..let me know. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 Nice to see there are still the hefty old fashioned spaniels about. Good luck to you with him he looks a cracking dog 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustaff Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 Nice to see there are still the hefty old fashioned spaniels about. Good luck to you with him he looks a cracking dog i have one a lovely dog massive paws probably the best working dog i have had now 8 yrs old and he never relents on a retrieve but sadly only one knacker and fires blanks no pups from him.hard to find big working strain springers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 Givendale and newflame spaniels both specialise in big old fashioned springers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 That brings back memories, unlike these small skinny so-called springer of today sad really, that's what field trails has done for the breed (nothing) That's a dog to be proud of a real cracker at that shame he's not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 You won't find any Newflame dogs that are big dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixsmaid Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 You won't find any Newflame dogs that are big dogs are Newflame still going? think they bred more traditional well coloured dogs and favored the more stocky type - more traditional old style before the white flashy trial whippets came along!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 yes they are, he does breed well marked dogs but none of them are big dogs have walked past the kennels hundreds of times as he only lives 10 minutes away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixsmaid Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) yes they are, he does breed well marked dogs but none of them are big dogs have walked past the kennels hundreds of times as he only lives 10 minutes away So he's still going then? Edited March 2, 2017 by Brixsmaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up. Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs? I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse. He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most. Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up. Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs? I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse. He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most. Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back Wouldn't that be interesting if quite a few people pop up with some big dogs/bitches that could be the start of a new gene pool (we'd never be that lucky). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 It would be nice, i did know 2 local boys whho have bred some cracking big spaniels for years but both are geting oder and there dogs aren't KC registered but used to breed some great looking and decent working dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixsmaid Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up. Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs? I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse. He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most. Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back Unfortunately Peter Coombes (the man behind Badgercourt) is no longer with us, his son did take over the affix, but I can't recall if he has continued the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Scotslad, this kennel appears to have a lot of Badgercourt in their line. http://www.torwindspaniels.co.uk/?p=p_93&sName=stud-dogs Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up. Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs? I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse. He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most. Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up. Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs? I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse. He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most. Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back I used to buy dogs back in the 70s out of the Rivington line...last one I had was out of Ftch R.Santa Claus...Beautiful big dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up. Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs? I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse. He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most. Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back Just checked my dogs pedigree...Badgercourt druid in his line as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Scotslad, this kennel appears to have a lot of Badgercourt in their line. http://www.torwindspaniels.co.uk/?p=p_93&sName=stud-dogs Cheers penelope. Do u know the folk that run the kennel? I had a bit of a look throu there site but do they actually work there dogs? or just from working strains. Only ask as don't really mention working them and they've got that KC working gundog certificate. I don't know anyone who works dogs would bother with that. Any of the other kennels sites i've loooked at usually have loads of shoot day photos etc Very well health tested thou. Are all thoose health tests even relevant to springers? Hips elbows and every genetic eye test going. I know labs can be prone to most of them but didn't think springers were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 IMO if you want a springer that size get a lab. Blame field trials for all evils if you like, but there's plenty of variety in trial dogs for various cover and terrain that will produce game, which is all I'm concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 IMO if you want a springer that size get a lab. Blame field trials for all evils if you like, but there's plenty of variety in trial dogs for various cover and terrain that will produce game, which is all I'm concerned about. Ur probably right but already got 3 labs. I think a spaniel compliments them as part of the picking up or beating team. I just think the bigger dogs cope better with a long hard day, esp if on grouse, see some of the shorter bitches and there teets look red raw at the end of a day. Dunno if sore or not but definately looks it And i've seen that big spaniel of mine belly crawl into some real thick stuff and brash piles where other dogs have backed out, so size doesn't have to stop them getting into cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustaff Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 i pick up with 3 or 4 dogs two labs and my big springer and a pup coming on the spaniel is a bramble basher come bulldozer and rips him self to bits his face scarred but never relents if a bird is in there its coming out vegetation with it some times badgercourt in his lines too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 It's interesting to hear about big dogs not shying out of cover and smashing brambles. My own experience is that a dog with real drive will do this regardless of size or mass and the smaller ones work their way under the cover more efficiently. I personally agree with WGD- what advantage does a springer that size offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 But is that size not the size they all were 30 yrs ago? It's not wanting anything new just wanting dogs the way they were for decades or longer. Andprobably nearer the size stated in the breed standard? I doubt most of the modern FT lines would pass the breed stanard (wether lab springer or cocker) just as the show lines probably would pass it either, i think it's quite ironic that the more pure 'working' lines are nearer breed standard yet usually looked down upon If ur picking up on a big day (most of the shoots in my area still release either ring/black necks or banzty X's birds, the fad of tiny kanas X' birds has passed) some of the cock pheasants this year were really heavy and big and i did see some of the smaller dogs struggling more (simply physics size of jaw compared to bird and wieght of bird compared to dog). Doesn't make a big difference for smaller days but if ur working back to back big days i do think it makes a slight difference. Plus with sightly longer legs ur dog is more effecient moving about it not like its bashing brairs for 8hrs straight. That springer of mine seems to move effoertlessly and cover ground easily, is that not the very reason they went out of fashion because smaller dogs look like there working faster because there legs are moving faster But being honest i just prefer the way a bigger dog looks and like dogs well marked, But it is just a pesonal preference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 But is that size not the size they all were 30 yrs ago? It's not wanting anything new just wanting dogs the way they were for decades or longer. Andprobably nearer the size stated in the breed standard? I doubt most of the modern FT lines would pass the breed stanard (wether lab springer or cocker) just as the show lines probably would pass it either, i think it's quite ironic that the more pure 'working' lines are nearer breed standard yet usually looked down upon If ur picking up on a big day (most of the shoots in my area still release either ring/black necks or banzty X's birds, the fad of tiny kanas X' birds has passed) some of the cock pheasants this year were really heavy and big and i did see some of the smaller dogs struggling more (simply physics size of jaw compared to bird and wieght of bird compared to dog). Doesn't make a big difference for smaller days but if ur working back to back big days i do think it makes a slight difference. Plus with sightly longer legs ur dog is more effecient moving about it not like its bashing brairs for 8hrs straight. That springer of mine seems to move effoertlessly and cover ground easily, is that not the very reason they went out of fashion because smaller dogs look like there working faster because there legs are moving faster But being honest i just prefer the way a bigger dog looks and like dogs well marked, But it is just a pesonal preference Fair comment- FT lines are not all bad, certainly they've done some good in the cocker world- being a cocker man I am glad we are not seeing the dogs of 30 years ago. It just struck me that a lab is the tool for the job described. But alas a lab is the tool for many of the jobs my spaniels do- and I don't particularly want one either. Givendale lines in Ireland had a write up in the press a few years ago describing the challenge of shifting back to more traditional form and confirmation. I've seen many breeders with bigger springers, probably just a case of contacting enough folks. All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 5, 2017 Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 Sorry, but I don't. Just did a search on google. Might be worth giving them a call. Cheers penelope. Do u know the folk that run the kennel? I had a bit of a look throu there site but do they actually work there dogs? or just from working strains. Only ask as don't really mention working them and they've got that KC working gundog certificate. I don't know anyone who works dogs would bother with that. Any of the other kennels sites i've loooked at usually have loads of shoot day photos etc Very well health tested thou. Are all thoose health tests even relevant to springers? Hips elbows and every genetic eye test going. I know labs can be prone to most of them but didn't think springers were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker58 Posted March 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 well all I can say about my Ess is I do a lot of wildfowling...And some of my friends run Lab's which are cracking dogs..But i will promise you, he will hold his own with any of them pulling birds out of the tide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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