Shotshell Reloading your Thoughts?

[Simuk]

 

You are being truly ripped off at those prices. You should be able to buy a suitable powder for under £40 a kilo, I was paying £37.50 for AS and primers should be around £30 per K. I was loading 20 gauge clay loads with home made shot and it was costing me around £80 per K all in.

 

The joys of living in Northern Ireland

[rovercoupe]

When I started loading I asked on here for a clay load for Vectan AS, advice was 21 grains AS and 24 grams lead shot. This load works for me as good as any from shop. Your powder charge seems light to me Clay & Game recipe for your Gualandi Spark wad says 21.5 grains AS and 24 gram lead shot in a 70mm case with a CX2000 primer.

 

Hope this helps.

My go to load for the sxs on clays, love it and never had any problems with it. I drop my shot as pure roof lead with a touch of tin to aid flow and it seems to work as good as any other shot bought or otherwise

[Simuk]

My go to load for the sxs on clays, love it and never had any problems with it. I drop my shot as pure roof lead with a touch of tin to aid flow and it seems to work as good as any other shot bought or otherwise

 

Now you have hopefully just given me a shot of faith buddy.

Thanks for that

[Guest cookoff013]

there are better powders for 24g loads.

the funny thing is with AS, it was designed and made for 1200fps 1,1/8oz loads. and that it does very nicely at about 19grains. it isnt just mined out of the ground or is just found, its designed for an industrial application.

nobel used to publish 32g loads for this but stopped. i have no idea why, but it is a staple for average / slow 1,1/8oz loads.

it is for fast 1oz loads but needs to be ramped up in powder charges, and that goes for 24-25 gram loads too. while its not wrong, its not exactly economicly viable either at 2x.x powder charges.

 

however, a whole bunch of these shells have been made with the exact components... this is one of the loads i teach, supersparks, AS and 25g lead. its been made in every configuration ranging from #5-all the way to #9 (sadly i rarely load 8s)

these have taken game too.

[Continental Shooter]

Cook the reason they stopped is that people actually try to copy the published load when is renowned that 'factory' powders are a lot faster than 'retail' ones.

 

The load i have used in the past for AS when shooting clays is:

 

PPS 12/70/ 688 (or CX2000, no 616) 1,40 g 21.6 gr) x 28 g and this returned 415 m/s V1

 

This was over 10 years ago and my AS was slow burning and could send it to 30g no bother so, it might have changed quite a bit since.

 

Also, wad will influence your pattern in 2 ways: 1- the way the wad patterns naturally, 2- the way the wad affects the pressure; which, in turns, affects your pattern.

 

As advised, try to pattern test your load at a distance you feel comfy shooting clays; if the pattern is too tight then your low in pressure; if it's too open you might be over the load expected pressure.

 

Cheers,

[Simuk]

there are better powders for 24g loads.

the funny thing is with AS, it was designed and made for 1200fps 1,1/8oz loads. and that it does very nicely at about 19grains. it isnt just mined out of the ground or is just found, its designed for an industrial application.

nobel used to publish 32g loads for this but stopped. i have no idea why, but it is a staple for average / slow 1,1/8oz loads.

it is for fast 1oz loads but needs to be ramped up in powder charges, and that goes for 24-25 gram loads too. while its not wrong, its not exactly economicly viable either at 2x.x powder charges.

 

however, a whole bunch of these shells have been made with the exact components... this is one of the loads i teach, supersparks, AS and 25g lead. its been made in every configuration ranging from #5-all the way to #9 (sadly i rarely load 8s)

these have taken game too.

No particularly after a 24g load, just after a good load for clay busting using the components i have (and can get) Vectan AS, Guilandi Spark Wads, CCI primers, my own shot, scavenged PT 70mm cases

 

 

 

Cook the reason they stopped is that people actually try to copy the published load when is renowned that 'factory' powders are a lot faster than 'retail' ones.

 

The load i have used in the past for AS when shooting clays is:

 

PPS 12/70/ 688 (or CX2000, no 616) 1,40 g 21.6 gr) x 28 g and this returned 415 m/s V1

 

This was over 10 years ago and my AS was slow burning and could send it to 30g no bother so, it might have changed quite a bit since.

 

Also, wad will influence your pattern in 2 ways: 1- the way the wad patterns naturally, 2- the way the wad affects the pressure; which, in turns, affects your pattern.

 

As advised, try to pattern test your load at a distance you feel comfy shooting clays; if the pattern is too tight then your low in pressure; if it's too open you might be over the load expected pressure.

 

Cheers,

 

Thanks for that, i think testing is the way to go, instead of turning up on club day and wondering why i'm missing

[MAB1954]

 

Sadly you may be right, i have spent a lot of time and energy as well as money setting up my reloading gear for Shotshells. If i didn't enjoy making them i would take the hit immediately and flog the lot. BUT i do enjoy it and all i'm asking is for a round that's as good as the cheap **** not the stuff the Elite boys with the 20k guns shoot.

I will persevere for now. Will try some different recipes whilst trying to keep my head and hands intact

 

Thanks for the support

may i ask your own shot or factory shot?

 

For size 7.5 shot I buy factory or re cycled both work fine.

[Guest cookoff013]

i test virtually everything, its a waste of money really.

i do alot of funky weirdo loads.

 

my last lot had had some great nontoxic results with A1.

i also tested AS / 25grams steel in a 3" hull to HP pressures, slightly over cooked it. but the data is invaluble

[figgy]

Unless your saving money why bother for clays. Oddball or large Wildfowling steel loads are where savings can be made.

[Simuk]

Ok i did some pattern testing yesterday.

 

All testing was done at 30 yards Under Barrel (3/4 choke)

 

Fired the factory Danarms 28g 71/2 shell first, pattern was tight although quite small and high but if the clay was in the zone it was dead.

 

None of my own shells would pattern as tight, i tried shot from 26 grams to 32 grams with varying powder charges.

 

They all made decent attempts at covering the area i was shooting at (cardboard roughly 30" x 30") but none patterned as tightly as the factory.

 

Maybe it's the fact my shot is slightly larger than the factory?

 

The 32 gram shell did have pellets hit almost all over the cardboard, maybe if i up the speed on that cartridge i will get tighter pattern?

 

Hmm what to do next i wonder

[neutron619]

Maybe it's the fact my shot is slightly larger than the factory?

 

The 32 gram shell did have pellets hit almost all over the cardboard, maybe if i up the speed on that cartridge i will get tighter pattern?

 

Both unlikely.

 

All other factors being equal, large shot should pattern better than small shot since the same absolute deformation results in proportionately less deformation if the shot is larger.

 

All other factors being equal, slower cartridges should pattern better than faster ones as the forces involved in driving the pellets down the barrel and through the choke are proportionately smaller, usually resulting in lesser deformation of individual pellets.

 

I would suggest that it is likely - if not detectably so - that your shot is less uniform than factory shot (I'm assuming you don't have a shot tower and are therefore using the slope-aperture-warm coolant method) and that when the forces / resistances of being propelled at over 1000fps through air are taken into account, the slightly-more-elliptical shot that you have produced is demonstrating its non-uniformity in a way that your patterns can display.

 

It's been said before on this thread: try buying decent factory shot and saving money on the other components.

 

Or I'll repeat my advice - cheap factory loads will be better than cheap home loads. Load something unusual, or buy factory 12 gauge shells for best (cheap) results.

Edited April 3, 2017 by neutron619

[Simuk]

 

Both unlikely.

 

All other factors being equal, large shot should pattern better than small shot since the same absolute deformation results in proportionately less deformation if the shot is larger.

 

All other factors being equal, slower cartridges should pattern better than faster ones as the forces involved in driving the pellets down the barrel and through the choke are proportionately smaller, usually resulting in lesser deformation of individual pellets.

 

I would suggest that it is likely - if not detectably so - that your shot is less uniform than factory shot (I'm assuming you don't have a shot tower and are therefore using the slope-aperture-warm coolant method) and that when the forces / resistances of being propelled at over 1000fps through air are taken into account, the slightly-more-elliptical shot that you have produced is demonstrating its non-uniformity in a way that your patterns can display.

 

It's been said before on this thread: try buying decent factory shot and saving money on the other components.

 

Or I'll repeat my advice - cheap factory loads will be better than cheap home loads. Load something unusual, or buy factory 12 gauge shells for best (cheap) results.

 

Buying shot is not an option as it puts the price of reloading stupidly high, compared to cheap factory.

 

Sadly maybe your right and I should just stick to buying factory and quit while i can.....

[sitsinhedges]

Just buy linotype and make your shot harder. My shot is equal to any factory cartridge clay for clay.

[Simuk]

Just buy linotype and make your shot harder. My shot is equal to any factory cartridge clay for clay.

Out of interest what is your mix rate for linotype with lead?

Edited April 3, 2017 by Simuk

[super sharp shooter]

I'm sure I used 1:5 ratio when I was making shot.

[Simuk]

I'm sure I used 1:5 ratio when I was making shot.

 

Thanks for that, i have about 15kg's of linotype that i was saving for 9mm, i can use that to begin with

[Continental Shooter]

 

Both unlikely.

 

All other factors being equal, large shot should pattern better than small shot since the same absolute deformation results in proportionately less deformation if the shot is larger.

 

All other factors being equal, slower cartridges should pattern better than faster ones as the forces involved in driving the pellets down the barrel and through the choke are proportionately smaller, usually resulting in lesser deformation of individual pellets.

 

 

 

both slightly inaccurate

 

larger shot do pattern better (harder to deform, keep better speed at longer ranges, etc.) but the pellet counts drop and the pattern might look 'empty' so, unless you do a proper count (expected pellet / pellets on the pattern) it might be misleading looking at a piece of cardboard. Just check the percentage of pellets on target for peace of mind.

 

Slower shells do pattern better but that is also in relation to pressure. if the pressure/speed combo is balanced, there is no reason why any combination shouldn't pattern at best.

 

If you could post pics (or pm) and details of what you shot, we can have a think about

[neutron619]

 

both slightly inaccurate

 

larger shot do pattern better (harder to deform, keep better speed at longer ranges, etc.) but the pellet counts drop and the pattern might look 'empty' so, unless you do a proper count (expected pellet / pellets on the pattern) it might be misleading looking at a piece of cardboard. Just check the percentage of pellets on target for peace of mind.

 

Slower shells do pattern better but that is also in relation to pressure. if the pressure/speed combo is balanced, there is no reason why any combination shouldn't pattern at best.

 

If you could post pics (or pm) and details of what you shot, we can have a think about

 

I'm sorry to be slightly anal about this as I know you're trying to be helpful and I've appreciated your input in the past, but it feels like you're trying to manufacture non-existent differences between our positions to try and score Brownie points with the massif. Granny does not particularly need to hear comment on her egg-sucking technique, now that she's mastered the skill.

 

I'd therefore like to point out that I said "all other factors being equal", by which I (thought I had) implied the following:

 

"250 pellets of #4 shot will tend to pattern better than 250 pellets of #7½ shot"

 

That is, the number of pellets is assumed to be equal in both cases.

 

As for your second point, I'm not sure how I was inaccurate at all. I said slower shells tended to pattern better. You said slower shells tended to pattern better. You made reference to an influencing factor which doesn't alter the general conclusion. Qualitatively, we are both correct.

[Continental Shooter]

Sorry, might have used the wrong words here: i said slightly inaccurate, not completely wrong

 

On the second point, again, might be a misinterpretation: i have no doubt that 250 pellets #4 will pattern better than #7 1/2 (especially at 30 yds) but 250 pellets #7 1/2 correspond to 17.6 g; whilst 250 pellets #4 are the equivalent of 42g ... so, for me, all factors being equal, meant testing one with 400 pellets #7 and one with 170 #4 (both 1 oz)

 

but again, apologies if i misunderstood or mot made myself clear

[Wb123]

If being cheaper than factory loads is of critical importance you may need to go 28 or 410. Less powder and shot use, and a higher price to beat. Win win.