sandspider Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Hi all I know there are a few boiler installers on here, so I'm looking for a rough idea of costs please. We need a new boiler (specifically a Worcester Danesmoor 25/32 external oil fired condensing boiler), and also the addition of a pluming kit, installation of ~15 thermostatic radiator valves, a magnaclean filter, power flush of existing system etc. but no other major changes (no new rads, new circuits, new controls or anything) I've had 3 quotes so far, and the highest quote is almost 3x the lowest quote! The different quotes aren't broken down the same way, so it's a bit hard to compare like for like - can anyone give me an idea what we should expect to pay for the above boiler and installation? In South Wales if it makes much difference. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 No idea. but just recently had a gas one fitted and some interesting things. If fitted by a bosch Worcester registered fitter warranty is 10yrs rather than 5yrs. Also if not fitted properly no warranty at all, and these boilers are apparently like cars they plug in a machine it tells them the bits & bobs, so if not fitted properly they just ****** off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Difficult to give an accurate quote without seeing it but the external Danesmoor isn't a cheap piece of kit, I'd hazard a guess at around four and a half to five grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) No idea. but just recently had a gas one fitted and some interesting things. If fitted by a bosch Worcester registered fitter warranty is 10yrs rather than 5yrs. Also if not fitted properly no warranty at all, and these boilers are apparently like cars they plug in a machine it tells them the bits & bobs, so if not fitted properly they just ****** off. I didn't think Worcester offer ten years on any of their boilers even for accredited installers (our company is one of them). They do offer good after-sales services but they do have some idiosyncrasies. For example you can get an extra year's warranty if you install the appliance with their own magnetic cleanser, and another if you use their extortionate Comfort series of controllers, though admittedly they are good. You commission them with a industry-standard flue gas analyser. Worcester engineers have a propitiatory software back-up system for fault diagnostics but I'll be honest, any decent engineer will be able to work out any fault without having to access any diagnostic software. The most common fault they suffer from is a fractured left hand hydro block - pretty easy to spot as there's water lashing out of it To be fair Worcester do subsidise the cost of the part as it's been an achilies heel in their boilers for a number of years. The part was made (rather poorly) by Dupont. https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/archive/boilers/worcester-accredited-installers-important-information Edited June 2, 2017 by racing snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Just what i was told by our builder & installer also confirmed it. Guess i will find out if it breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Just what i was told by our builder & installer also confirmed it. Guess i will find out if it breaks. Once the installer registers the boiler with Worcester you'll receive documentation from them as to when the warranty expires (make sure it gets registered!). I think the longest they offer is 7 years for the CDI Classic, but you can get it up to 9 with a Worcester magnetic cleaner and a Comfort Series controller, providing the installer's a WAI. Edited June 2, 2017 by racing snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Difficult to give an accurate quote without seeing it but the external Danesmoor isn't a cheap piece of kit, I'd hazard a guess at around four and a half to five grand. +1 Without knowing what you call 'plumbing kit' would just guess at £5k. Try Andrew Houndsfield of Houndsfield boilers,lion barn ind estate,suffolk.just quoted £1900 for worcester boiler and his was £900 and a far better product,i mainly fit worcester or grant oil boilers,but now include Houndsfield. Would be very interested to know what you have been quoted. Edited June 2, 2017 by vampire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) +1 Without knowing what you call 'plumbing kit' would just guess at £5k. Reckon it's a plume management kit that's possibly worded wrong. Edited June 2, 2017 by racing snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footu Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 also beware, mine just completely busted after 6 years and 4 grand to replace with drain and flush etc. (not under warranty as you must pay for an annual service or null and void, mine was 5 years anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del T Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Yep you need an annual service to keep the guarantee. Service engineer fills the book in as proof. I just fit worcester because the guarantee is great and they don't use 'get outs' like the other manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted June 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Thanks all. Especially racing snake! Quotes have been between 2 and 6 grand! (But the latter includes moving the oil tank and some new pipework) And the pluming kit is for plume management, yes. Footu, was yours a Worcester danesmoor? Hope not! I'm looking for a boiler that will last. All 3 installers recommended Worcester... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 I've just had 3 quotes for a similar installation, but with a slightly larger btu output, ranging between £4800 and £5200 + VAT. I have an external Worcester fitted at one of my cottages which is still trouble free after 14 years. So no complaints from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donegalcharlie Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Ours just packed up this week an when the engineer landed to look he opened the door an said judging by the looks of this I am very surprised I wasn't reading about you in the paper it was in that bad of a state. Time to lift the mattress I doubt lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) Thanks all. Especially racing snake! Quotes have been between 2 and 6 grand! (But the latter includes moving the oil tank and some new pipework) And the pluming kit is for plume management, yes. Footu, was yours a Worcester danesmoor? Hope not! I'm looking for a boiler that will last. All 3 installers recommended Worcester... The Danesmoor Greenstar is a cracking boiler, at least now it is. The first version had a bit of a bizarre baffle arrangement - a series of Z shaped baffles that sat in the heat exchanger. They worked great for a while but there's been a number of cases of sulphur deposits jamming the baffles in place causing a restriction on the heat exchanger which would ultimately cause the boiler to soot up rapidly. I've seen it happen on two of the first Danesmoor Greenstars. If you can free the baffles with Bicarb and water solution you're OK, but it is a pig of a job. If you can't it's a whole new heat exchanger, which is the main component of the boiler. Worcester have cured the issue on the new ones with a one-piece baffle, which yours will have. I personally think Worcester are the best oil boilers on the market but they are pricey. Their gas boilers are....OK, but there are others as good for less money. New range coming out next year though, the 9000, 6000 and 3000 I think they're calling them. The kitchen models are colour coordinated to match your units, and they've got no button or dials on them, all touchscreen, permanently on-line with WI-FI connectivity, IQ self diagnostics, always letting Worcester what you're up to. Big brother is watching . . . . Edited June 3, 2017 by racing snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 I had one fitted together with just one large radiator and seven thermostatic radiator valves and that was about 6k I could have got it cheaper but as I had a grant to pay for part of it I had to go with the firm stipulated. I find the valves to be a waist of money as once you set the temp up properly I think it was leave them all open then starting with the furthest away from the boiler and work back normal taps will do the job at a fraction of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Ours just packed up this week an when the engineer landed to look he opened the door an said judging by the looks of this I am very surprised I wasn't reading about you in the paper it was in that bad of a state. Time to lift the mattress I doubt lol We always get ours serviced every year cost about £100 but well worth it as I dread to think of it shutting down in the middle of winter getting on a bit now I cannot take the cold like I used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Thanks all. One more question - is it worth getting something like Honeywell Evohome? I'd like to put our CH into zones, but can't be doing with new pipe runs everywhere - sounds like the Evohome would do this via WiFi - but is it actually any good? (It would be nice to have remote control of the heating and hot water via a phone app, but not essential...) Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Thanks all. One more question - is it worth getting something like Honeywell Evohome? I'd like to put our CH into zones, but can't be doing with new pipe runs everywhere - sounds like the Evohome would do this via WiFi - but is it actually any good? (It would be nice to have remote control of the heating and hot water via a phone app, but not essential...) Cheers. The EvoHome is good but you really need to have the lifestyle for it to be truly invaluable. If you've got a relatively regimented daily life it's difficult to recoup the cost of the Evo home kit. Yes you can set individual temperatures for individual rooms but the Evo Home's greatest suit is you can do it remotely. If you're out the house by 9am for work and back at 5pm then a suitable WiFi thermostat is plenty, which can bring on both hot water and heating channels with a phone app (Wave, Hive, Nest etc) You can set individual temperatures for each room with simple thermostatic TRV's, or isolate them completely by turning them off. If your lifestyle is a little less regimented and you're likely to be away from home for different periods in the day, or out of the country regularly then the Evo is a good method of monitoring and regulating temperature throughout the building, but I still question the need to bring single radiators on in a property and not others if you're not at home, you either need to protect from frost (in which case you need to bring the entire system up for a short period, which you can do with any WiFi and App controlled thermostat) or you don't. If you're at home then you can switch off, or turn down rads in rooms that aren't being used. The majority of our Evo installs have been either for second homes (without regular occupancy) or for people who are out of the country often. In short - innovative set of controls, can incrementally increase household efficiency but if you're at home regularly it's not really worth the outlay. You can still use an app to bring heating and hot water on with cheaper alternatives. User interface on the Evo's a bit clunky too. The Nest Pro and Worcester's proprietary Wave are both exceptional (I prefer the Wave ). Bare in mind, if you decide on using a Wave you will need to run a two-core cable to the thermostat, it's refresh rate and data transfer is too high to use RF to the controls. It's only data though so a simple two core will suffice. Nest Pro (and Hive it think) also need permanent mains-fed power to the transmitter (thermostat). Another gadget you can get for the Nest Pro is remote activation of house lighting, if you really want to push the 'gadget' boat out. https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boiler-controls/wave https://nest.com/uk/support/article/Learn-more-about-the-3rd-generation-Nest-Thermostat-s-domestic-hot-water-control Edited June 7, 2017 by racing snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Thanks RS, that's very useful. Probably not worth the EvoHome for our usage then... One installer is now suggesting a Grant boiler over Worcester, just trying to get the difference in cost. This installer (a Grant Registered Installer, so probably not impartial!) suggests that Grant boilers are (very nearly) as good as Worcester, but without paying for the name. They also say that Grant spares are cheaper... Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Thanks RS, that's very useful. Probably not worth the EvoHome for our usage then... One installer is now suggesting a Grant boiler over Worcester, just trying to get the difference in cost. This installer (a Grant Registered Installer, so probably not impartial!) suggests that Grant boilers are (very nearly) as good as Worcester, but without paying for the name. They also say that Grant spares are cheaper... Hmm. I fit either worcester or grant,not a lot of difference apart from grant is,cheaper,quieter,easier to fit and service an all together better thought out boiler.You could not go wrong fitting a Grant boiler,as a reg oftec technician would not hesitate to fit one on my own place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted June 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Cheers In that case, why are Worcester more popular?! Just because of the name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Personally I wouldn't fit a Grant, nor would our company. They're cheaper to buy, admittedly but they're still behind Worcester in a few departments, Still using two pumps instead of a diverter (they stopped doing that on gas boilers over ten years ago with the old 350). The plate heat exchangers ALWAYS leak after a couple of years, and guess where one of the pumps is? Yup, under the plate heat exchanger. I've changed dozens of pumps on Grants because water from a leaking plate union has fried it. Don't like the temperature blending valve for hot water - why not do as Worcester do and heat the thermal store to the temp the user decides, as opposed to overheating it with the Grant then having to cool it down. Condense trap at the bottom of the boiler ALWAYS leaks. The flow switch is of the design Worcester stopped using in 2008 because they had a high failure rate. It's also only a continuity (on/off) flow switch, where as the current Worcester one uses a hall sensor turbine which the software can interrogate and display flow rate through the plate. The current (MkII) Greenstar Heatslave doesn't use any mechanical type thermostats, instead it does all its temperature monitoring with NTC sensors which are far more accurate. I could go on but you get the idea. The only good thing about the Grant is the burner, Riello RDB 2.2, the same burner as the Worcester. This is the Grant Vortex combi - the plate heat exchager (that leaks) is the small copper coloured box on the right hand side. Directly below it is one of the pumps. It's been an issue for years on the Grants and I can't for the life of me understand why they persist with it. Don't put anything electrical underneath something that holds water and (on the Grant) is renowned for leaking! Silly temperature blending valve (that cools down something the boiler's just heated up) can bee seen underneath the plate. Note only one thermostat dial on the front - it won't allow you to set the temperature of the thermal store. The external Grants seem to leak even more than the internal ones - I think the greater temperature range they experience externally has a impact on their integrity. Been a Gas Safe (formerly CORGI) and OFTEC engineer for over 25 years so, if fitting a gas boiler you've got a broader choice of good boilers. With oil though the Worcester range are peerless. The Grants are cheaper, and for that reason some installers will push them, but if it were my money I wouldn't entertain one. As for spares costs - its the same burner so any burner parts are the same. Rest of the boiler - I've never seen any evidence of Grant spares being any cheaper than Worcester. ERP pump heads are more expensive than the old 3 speed pumps, the Worcester has one, the Grant has two. As they say - do the math(s) Edited June 9, 2017 by racing snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted June 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Thanks again RS, food for thought there. Are you in Wales, based on your profile pic?! I'm near Chepstow, and need a new boiler soon! Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing snake Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Thanks again RS, food for thought there. Are you in Wales, based on your profile pic?! I'm near Chepstow, and need a new boiler soon! Cheers. Sorry SS but I'm in North Wales, so you're a bit far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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