ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 just having a wander about over the net............. came across a site "threeplanes.net"...a post about the heat treating of 01 steel ...................... have a look at it and see what you think...................and your opinion ditch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) From my memories of tool making the site covers the hardening and tempering of steel in some detail, I would imagine the info would be very helpful to the diy tool maker. If I remember correctly 0-1 tool steel is precision ground flat stock W1.2510? Edited January 22, 2018 by old'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, old'un said: From my memories of tool making the site covers the hardening and tempering of steel in some detail, I would imagine the info would be very helpful to the diy tool maker. If I remember correctly 0-1 tool steel is precision ground flat stock W1.2510? yep you are right......i have a good local supplier and can get it several sizes / shapes ..........all the tool steel (01) is already annealed ready for working............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, ditchman said: yep you are right......i have a good local supplier and can get it several sizes / shapes ..........all the tool steel (01) is already annealed ready for working............ Is there a knife coming ole friend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, la bala said: Is there a knife coming ole friend? you just have not been reading my posts have you........................pay attention now.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ditchman said: yep you are right......i have a good local supplier and can get it several sizes / shapes ..........all the tool steel (01) is already annealed ready for working............ I have used this steel to wire erode lots of gun parts for a mate (gunmaker) and also a few repair parts for my own guns amongst other bits and pieces, a very versatile steel. How do you temper your steel after hardening, time or colour? Edited January 22, 2018 by old'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, ditchman said: you just have not been reading my posts have you........................pay attention now.......... Sorry I am now paying attention, look forward to your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, old'un said: I have used this steel to wire erode lots of gun parts for a mate (gunmaker) and also a few repair parts for my own guns amongst other bits and pieces, a very versatile steel. How do you temper your steel after hardening, time or colour? Right .......this is how "i" see it..............if im wrong fer christs sake tell me........... get billet and shape and drill oles leave edge thick put in forge gently bring to above (just) cherry red quench straight down into oil move up and down straight clean up...shiny put 1/2" steel plate on forge and put roof on forge put a couple of welding rods onto steel plate watch coulour run to "dark straw" remove sharpish place edge and some into clean oil leave spine to cool slowly whilst edge is in oil temper 3 times what do you rekon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Must admit I have never made a knife from ground stock, made a few from old machine hacksaw blades (HSS). You could hot forge the knife edge down to somewhere you want the finished item to-be, maybe around 1mm at the knife edge, or you could machine the excess material off, as you say you can rough shape and drill holes before hardening, it is possible to machine the steel after hardening with tungsten tipped tools, also be aware that it can air harden, so don’t let it get to cold when forging. Hardening and temper get billet and shape and drill oles (yep) leave edge thick (lot of work removing metal after heat treatment) put in forge gently bring to above (just) cherry red (yep) quench straight down into oil move up and down straight (yep) clean up...shiny (yep) put 1/2" steel plate on forge and put roof on forge (yep or you could put plate on cradle and apply a heat source from below) put a couple of welding rods onto steel plate (no need unless you want to practice?) watch colour run to "dark straw" (as you know the colour will determine the hardness (Rockwell) of the steel, hold the knife shank with a pair of tongues, place blade on tempering plate, watch very carefully and move the blade to get an even temper, although it will not hurt if the back of the blade starts to blue a little as this is not the cutting edge, if the colour tempering starts to go wrong just cool in oil, polish and start again. remove sharpish (when desired temper colour is reached or before if it starts to go wrong) place edge and some into clean oil (yep) leave spine to cool slowly whilst edge is in oil (remove when cool enough to handle) Just one other point when tempering, don’t get the temper plate to hot, you want the colour to come up slowly, like I said before if things start going wrong then cool in oil, polish and start again. I might be telling my grandmother how to suck eggs, but you are aware of friction tempering when grinding the blade? Edited January 22, 2018 by old'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 right ..............that gives me a basic format.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Now stop messing about and get on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Quote temper 3 times I'm intrigued Ditchman, what's behind tempering 3 times.? Edited January 22, 2018 by Bazooka Joe spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: I'm intrigued Ditchman, what's behind tempering 3 times.? with what i have been reading on heat treating 01...for cutting tools and edges...it is recommended by the suppliers................now....3 times ?.....as to that i have no metalugical answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 You only really have to heat this stuff until it’s no longer magnetic although I don’t know what you’re doing messing about with new steel recycling a old land rover or a bit of armour plate of a tank would be a lot more fun ?? all the best of this is going to be fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Old farrier said: You only really have to heat this stuff until it’s no longer magnetic although I don’t know what you’re doing messing about with new steel recycling a old land rover or a bit of armour plate of a tank would be a lot more fun ?? all the best of this is going to be fun titter yee not........TOGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote with what i have been reading on heat treating 01...for cutting tools and edges Thanks for the reply, the reason I asked is we used GFS everyday for punched & dies for cutting brass/copper/steel/stainless steel/mild steel/phosphor bronze of all different thickness & only tempered GFS once.....it's a new one on me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Thanks for the reply, the reason I asked is we used GFS everyday for punched & dies for cutting brass/copper/steel/stainless steel/mild steel/phosphor bronze of all different thickness & only tempered GFS once.....it's a new one on me.. sorry its HEAT TREAT once ...........TEMPER three times............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote TEMPER three times Yes that's what I meant in my post, sorry for the confusion....we only tempered once, not 3 times. Have you a link to what you've read on the heat treating.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Yes that's what I meant in my post, sorry for the confusion....we only tempered once, not 3 times. Have you a link to what you've read on the heat treating.. i am on a metalugtists forum and it is a result of the conversation im having with one of the mods..............but i have also seen the 3#thrice bit on a metal suppliers website...something to do with the "normalising" of the tempered edge catching structure that has "hung" over to bring it within the required matrix you are trying to achieve i getthe jist of it ...sort of...........sounds sensible to me.... no links im afraind until i can find what i was looking at........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I run 3 normalisation cycles to refine the grain structure before hardening also help reduce the chance of warping on the quench o1 I heat to 810 and hold for a few minutes then into warm oil as quickly as you can , check for hardness with a file so it skates and not bites into the steel them quick clean up and into oven for tempering 2hours the oven temp depends on what hardness you want for your blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, bigman said: I run 3 normalisation cycles to refine the grain structure before hardening also help reduce the chance of warping on the quench o1 I heat to 810 and hold for a few minutes then into warm oil as quickly as you can , check for hardness with a file so it skates and not bites into the steel them quick clean up and into oven for tempering 2hours the oven temp depends on what hardness you want for your blade thanks...................interesting reply...........im starting to put all this info together now..............your reply is similar to that of one of the metalugists on that USA forum... 5 hours ago, old'un said: Must admit I have never made a knife from ground stock, made a few from old machine hacksaw blades (HSS). You could hot forge the knife edge down to somewhere you want the finished item to-be, maybe around 1mm at the knife edge, or you could machine the excess material off, as you say you can rough shape and drill holes before hardening, it is possible to machine the steel after hardening with tungsten tipped tools, also be aware that it can air harden, so don’t let it get to cold when forging. Hardening and temper get billet and shape and drill oles (yep) leave edge thick (lot of work removing metal after heat treatment) put in forge gently bring to above (just) cherry red (yep) quench straight down into oil move up and down straight (yep) clean up...shiny (yep) put 1/2" steel plate on forge and put roof on forge (yep or you could put plate on cradle and apply a heat source from below) put a couple of welding rods onto steel plate (no need unless you want to practice?) watch colour run to "dark straw" (as you know the colour will determine the hardness (Rockwell) of the steel, hold the knife shank with a pair of tongues, place blade on tempering plate, watch very carefully and move the blade to get an even temper, although it will not hurt if the back of the blade starts to blue a little as this is not the cutting edge, if the colour tempering starts to go wrong just cool in oil, polish and start again. remove sharpish (when desired temper colour is reached or before if it starts to go wrong) place edge and some into clean oil (yep) leave spine to cool slowly whilst edge is in oil (remove when cool enough to handle) Just one other point when tempering, don’t get the temper plate to hot, you want the colour to come up slowly, like I said before if things start going wrong then cool in oil, polish and start again. I might be telling my grandmother how to suck eggs, but you are aware of friction tempering when grinding the blade? i am well aware of that.....if you have a query just thro it in...i will take the input as well recieved wether i know it or not...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 No worries buddy , the heat treating is my favorite bit of knife making it's when the blade gets its soul and comes alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Well it looks like you have most of the info you need to have a go, what equipment do you have? Furnace or hearth/forge? How will you do the tempering? What quenching oil you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, old'un said: Well it looks like you have most of the info you need to have a go, what equipment do you have? Furnace or hearth/forge? How will you do the tempering? What quenching oil you using? Right i have just "done a deal" on a stonking item of machinery....i will pick it up in the next few days...and start to post up some pics so you can drewl over it........ so watch this space.. not saying what it is...as i havnt got it inmy sticky hands....but what i will say iiissss its old i have to go to sheffield to pick it up.. Edited January 23, 2018 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Power hammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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