Law and order?

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Times change, as you say maybe something the will have to look at in the future.  When this is brought up there are all sorts of reasons given why the police shouldn't or couldn't be armed, the fact is they could most of the concerns are unfounded.

Yes I agree and the way it's going I could see it happening one day.

[Walker570]

With regard to arming all officers, I have to say I would not like to see things going that way. For a start the training required would be ridiculously expensive then the cost of sidearms added to that with ancillaries, storage when off duty etc etc.  I was one of the relatively small cadre of trained officers in our force tasked with being on call 24hrs a day if required. Today even better is the fact that we have trained officers on permanent mobile patrol in most if not all forces and certainly capable of  attending any situation quicker than our team could back then.  Our present day police have tasers and CS/Pepper which should cope with most everyday occurences.  I worked with some great folks but there was a small number I wouldn't issue a gun to on any account.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Walker570

[ordnance]

Quote

With regard to arming all officers, I have to say I would not like to see things going that way. For a start the training required would be ridiculously expensive then the cost of sidearms added to that with ancillaries, storage when off duty etc etc. 

That's one of the misconceptions i was talking about, the government could come up with the money if they felt the need like they do in most other countries. Firearm around £500 no more than a lot of equipment, training around the same for basic firearms training.

Quote

PSNI. The total cost of the 2 week initial firearm course is £ 582.94.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by ordnance

[12gauge82]

It would I imagine have to be a lower standard of training than an ARV officer currently receives, they are expensive to train. The biggest block to it however is as walker has said himself, the public don't yet want to see it.

[Vince Green]

24 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

With regard to arming all officers, I have to say I would not like to see things going that way. For a start the training required would be ridiculously expensive then the cost of sidearms added to that with ancillaries, storage when off duty etc etc.  I was one of the relatively small cadre of trained officers in our force tasked with being on call 24hrs a day if required. Today even better is the fact that we have trained officers on permanent mobile patrol in most if not all forces and certainly capable of  attending any situation quicker than our team could back then.  Our present day police have tasers and CS/Pepper which should cope with most everyday occurences.  I worked with some great folks but there was a small number I wouldn't issue a gun to on any account.

The other thing is the pathetic number of police "on the beat" compared to say America, even a small provincial town in America has a huge police force compared to an equivalent sized town in this country. And they have the town police, the county police, the State police, The Highway Patrol, The US Marshals. Park Rangers, Railway Police etc all with jurisdiction in that one small town..

When you see an incident in America on TV, (sadly often a shooting), pay close attention to the number of cars that responded. Most towns, most incidents, they can have twenty cars there in minutes. I myself have seen ten or more American police cars in convoy bumper to bumper screaming down the road lights and sirens to get to a fairly minor traffic accident, its policing as it should be done.

If you phone 911 and say there is somebody in my back yard I guarantee you will have four police cars there in minutes. And if they find somebody in your back yard they will arrest them and they will go to jail.  Phone 999 in this country and the police will turn up Tuesday, give you the number for Crime Stoppers and do nothing.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Vince Green

[ordnance]

24 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It would I imagine have to be a lower standard of training than an ARV officer currently receives, they are expensive to train. The biggest block to it however is as walker has said himself, the public don't yet want to see it.

Yes that's basic training allowing a officer to carry a pistol on and off duty. All police forces have have specialist units ARV /  SWAT etc, that are more expensive to train but that's not the level of training the ordinary officer receives or needs. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by ordnance

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

The police service has many fine upstanding officers , it also harbours , liars ,thieves,rapists , and all other manner of criminal. And yes,I speak from personal experience. 

My friend Alan's father had a small manufacturing business in the East End of London back in the 60s. He well remembers the police coming round every month to collect their envelopes. It was regarded as normal, it was the way it had always been, you had to pay the police, nobody questioned it.

[mel b3]

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

My friend Alan's father had a small manufacturing business in the East End of London back in the 60s. He well remembers the police coming round every month to collect their envelopes. It was regarded as normal, it was the way it had always been, you had to pay the police, nobody questioned it.

My mother was a police officers in the mid 60s , at her passing out parade at Hendon, the main man told the new constables that their are as many rogue's inside the police force as their is outside of it.  

[12gauge82]

Thankfully it's changed since then, sir Robert Mark stepped in and stamped it out back in 1972, there'll always be a rotten apple in any job but thankfully it'd be very rare in the police these days.

[Penelope]

Does anyone really expect different in the community that this arrest was made? They'll happily shoot and stab each other, so kicking a copper is nothing to 'em! 

 

[Walker570]

It was rare in my day and believe me we knew who they where, unfortunately in the 80s things changed. Another senior PC and myself approached our Inspector and pointed one out as if he didn't already know.  Due to the subjects skin colour he said he could do nothing about it as it was political dynamite.  Five years later I learned the subject had be arrested for laundering drug money.  Having said that, before anyone jumps on me for racism, I worked with four other coloured officers who were the best in the business and also knew of the 'subject'.

That is the one very big problem, the service has become 'politicised' without a doubt.