China coal fired power stations

[henry d]

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Coal can be burnt very efficiently if you pulverise it and blow it as a fine dust into the combustion chamber using very hot preheated compressed air. It creates a process not dissimilar to a jet engine. They were ecperimenting with all this stuff alongside flash steam engines back in the 60s for trains (and boats) and the early results were stunning.

But diesel electric was a low tech cop out and the funding dried up.

I am sure somebody could dust off the old notes and start again but the problem then, and still is now, coal comes out of the ground for free.  There is little incentive to burn it more efficiently. Unless you NEED to do it on a moving platform like a locomotive or a ship when the amount of coal you can carry is limited and takes up cargo space.

Otherwise, the only motivation is to mine it as cheaply as possibly and burn it in a low tech low cost power station with the least effort possible 

We can't go back and as technology has come on much further than the 1960's, jet engine technology far outweighs coal. Our (old technology) Olympus engines which are the marine version of the Concorde engines were fantastic and far in excess of pumping sprayers in an old (oil powered) steam turbine engine which was far more efficient and responsive than any coal powered boiler.

Efficiency should come before cost of raw materials otherwise we should be still driving horse and carts! (It's a joke, don't get all upset over it)

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Clearly you do not know the difference between Communist and Fascist. Fascist doesn't exist except as an adjective. Communist is well documented. China is communist.

 

Nah, I'm postmodern so I will decide what the word means to me, stick your documents in the... wherever.

[oowee]

The People’s Republic of China’s leadership finds much to celebrate on its 70th birthday, particularly given the travails of post-Soviet Russia. The 2024 milestone is in its sights; even the 2049 centenary. But will this increasingly corrupt regime be able to maintain its grip on such a vast and volatile country? Can it keep Hong Kong under control without another Tiananmen? Are the growing tensions with Taiwan going to escalate into conflict? How long will the PRC’s urban populace accept political castration in return for unfettered consumerism? And, if the CCP decides to embark on political reform, will it face the same dilemmas as Gorbachev three decades ago – with even greater pent-up force?

David Reynolds is professor of international history and a fellow of Christ’s College, Cambridge, and a New Statesman contributing writer

[Vince Green]

41 minutes ago, henry d said:

We can't go back and as technology has come on much further than the 1960's, jet engine technology far outweighs coal. Our (old technology) Olympus engines which are the marine version of the Concorde engines were fantastic and far in excess of pumping sprayers in an old (oil powered) steam turbine engine which was far more efficient and responsive than any coal powered boiler.

Efficiency should come before cost of raw materials otherwise we should be still driving horse and carts! (It's a joke, don't get all upset over it)

Nah, I'm postmodern so I will decide what the word means to me, stick your documents in the... wherever.

Oil is nowhere near as thermally efficient a fuel as good coal. The fact that oil became dominant in the first place owes a lot to the fact that America was discovering large reserves of oil about the same time as the automotive industry was kicking off. But why are were now spending billions buying oil from people who hate us?

As we are a country sitting on enough coal to serve all our energy needs for the next few hundred years at least, why would we not want to use it? Its free, its just sitting there waiting to be dug up? We have clean burn technology and some of the cleanest coal in the world.

And on the second point, as you balk at the word Communist do we take that as it appears? Do you have something you want to share with us? 

[Vince Green]

55 minutes ago, oowee said:

The People’s Republic of China’s leadership finds much to celebrate on its 70th birthday, particularly given the travails of post-Soviet Russia. The 2024 milestone is in its sights; even the 2049 centenary. But will this increasingly corrupt regime be able to maintain its grip on such a vast and volatile country? Can it keep Hong Kong under control without another Tiananmen? Are the growing tensions with Taiwan going to escalate into conflict? How long will the PRC’s urban populace accept political castration in return for unfettered consumerism? And, if the CCP decides to embark on political reform, will it face the same dilemmas as Gorbachev three decades ago – with even greater pent-up force?

David Reynolds is professor of international history and a fellow of Christ’s College, Cambridge, and a New Statesman contributing writer

I think China is like the old Roman Empire, (if you know their history well enough to comment?) never let a rebellion go unpunished, never bend, not even an inch, to do so just shows weakness and that simply cannot be allowed. Always make an example of anyone who opposes or disobeys you. Make the punishment far exceed the crime.

 

[KB1]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Factories are told what to produce and there is no internal competition.

Totally wrong

 

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Purchasing power, foreign investment in and out, education, movement of people, control of assets, knowledge sharing and participation pressure on it's banking.

Wrong

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I think they see the West as weak and reluctant to take action for fear of damage to it's own economies.

And….. wrong again🥴

[Vince Green]

1 minute ago, KB1 said:

Totally wrong

 

Wrong

And….. wrong again🥴

Ooooh that's three wrongs in a row, now are you going to explain what you mean? or just  leave us to suspect  what we think?  

[KB1]

2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Ooooh that's three wrongs in a row, now are you going to explain what you mean? or just  leave us to suspect  what we think?  

Certainly in regards to your post😊  You said……..  "Factories are told what to produce and there is no internal competition."

All privately owned businesses in China are in competition with one another, and are not told what to produce.

 

[oowee]

41 minutes ago, KB1 said:

Totally wrong

 

Wrong

And….. wrong again🥴

 Three wrongs don't make a right lol. So no content to back it up. 

[KB1]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

 Three wrongs don't make a right lol. So no content to back it up. 

I could type content all day long Sir, but I doubt it would change the chip shop opinions being banded on here😄  But I would state that my wife is Chinese, my children ½ Chinese, many Chinese in-laws, and to date around 60+ visits to China certainly gives a more in depth understanding of the reality than tabloid, heresay and Google ever could👍  I'm happy to type it all in Mandarin too if that helps😍

[oowee]

8 hours ago, KB1 said:

I could type content all day long Sir, but I doubt it would change the chip shop opinions being banded on here😄  But I would state that my wife is Chinese, my children ½ Chinese, many Chinese in-laws, and to date around 60+ visits to China certainly gives a more in depth understanding of the reality than tabloid, heresay and Google ever could👍  I'm happy to type it all in Mandarin too if that helps😍

Cant get fairer than that. 

[Vince Green]

10 hours ago, KB1 said:

Certainly in regards to your post😊  You said……..  "Factories are told what to produce and there is no internal competition."

All privately owned businesses in China are in competition with one another, and are not told what to produce.

 

Technically in China all companies are State owned. 

[KB1]

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Technically in China all companies are State owned. 

What a load of rubbish………..  Absolute tosh………. I suggest you do some homework🥴

[Vince Green]

5 minutes ago, KB1 said:

What a load of rubbish………..  Absolute tosh………. I suggest you do some homework🥴

I just did

China. After 1949, all business entities in the People's Republic of China were created and owned by the government. ... State-owned enterprises are mostly governed by both local governments' SASAC and, in the central government, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC) of the State Council.

[KB1]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

I just did

China. After 1949, all business entities in the People's Republic of China were created and owned by the government. ... State-owned enterprises are mostly governed by both local governments' SASAC and, in the central government, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC) of the State Council.

http://www.chinatbjt.com/en/index.php

That's my Father in Law's company………. never been owned by anyone but him…..   Just last month, he floated on the HK stock market…..

Some businesses may be state owned, but somewhere around 90+% of businesses are privately owned……….  I'm not pulling your chain, I promise😊    

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/why-chinas-state-owned-companies-still-have-a-key-role-to-play/  Some further reading for you…….

Hopefully you will understand that you're statement "Technically in China all companies are State owned. " is somewhat misleading (Wrong🙄)

Edited November 25, 2019 by KB1

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, KB1 said:

http://www.chinatbjt.com/en/index.php

That's my Father in Law's company………. never been owned by anyone but him…..   Just last month, he floated on the HK stock market…..

Some businesses may be state owned, but somewhere around 90+% of businesses are privately owned……….  I'm not pulling your chain, I promise😊    

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/why-chinas-state-owned-companies-still-have-a-key-role-to-play/  Some further reading for you…….

Hopefully you will understand that you're statement "Technically in China all companies are State owned. " is somewhat misleading (Wrong🙄)

Yes but you are talking about Hong Kong, we are talking about the Peoples Republic where they are building the power stations

[KB1]

30 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Yes but you are talking about Hong Kong, we are talking about the Peoples Republic where they are building the power stations

I had a feeling you would say that🙄  If you bothered to look at what I showed you, you would see that my father in law's company is in mainland China (Head office about an hours drive from Beijing); it just happened to float on the HKEX due to the benefits of the fastest growing exchange in Asia……..  Just to be clear, I'm talking about China👍

My wife is having a good laugh at the ignorance displayed on here by some about her homeland😁  

[henry d]

23 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Oil is nowhere near as thermally efficient a fuel as good coal. The fact that oil became dominant in the first place owes a lot to the fact that America was discovering large reserves of oil about the same time as the automotive industry was kicking off....

like you said, you can't shovel coal into a car etc. Like I said you can't shovel it fast enough to overtake modern gas turbines

And on the second point, as you balk at the word Communist do we take that as it appears? Do you have something you want to share with us? 

No, you'll just believe what ever proves your point, not communist, not socialist.

 

23 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I think China is like the old Roman Empire, (if you know their history well enough to comment?) never let a rebellion go unpunished, never bend, not even an inch, to do so just shows weakness and that simply cannot be allowed. Always make an example of anyone who opposes or disobeys you. Make the punishment far exceed the crime.

Why did they allow Christianity to flourish, they didn't bow down to the emperor but lived among them? Stop using things to prop up your argument.

[Vince Green]

11 hours ago, henry d said:

 

Why did they allow Christianity to flourish, they didn't bow down to the emperor but lived among them? Stop using things to prop up your argument.

The Romans did not "allow" Christianity to flourish. The Emperor Constantine imposed it forcibly  as the State religion in 313AD. And he did it for purely political reasons, he himself was not a Christian. How little you appear to know of history but then as a Communist yourself I don't suppose the history of Christianity is one of your strong points. Or the Romans it appears.

Constantine created the Holy Roman Empire by that action, As a result Rome became the centre of the Christian world, and a huge money spinner for the declining Roman Empire.

But what your point about Christianity  had to do with Chinese coal fired power stations is beyond me. A bit random don't you think? 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Vince Green

[oowee]

I have only been to China once for the Olympics in 2008, I was working for the Government here and traveling on a tourist visa. I had my bags impounded at the airport and had to pay £275 tax to get them back. I was followed everywhere except in the GB village. One of my team was denied entry to an event simply for having an epi pen even with a chinese doc's ticket. At the Birds Nest there were people with placards with instructions to clap or cheer. At the end of the event only the foreigners left. I am sure there is a lot to learn about the country and one visit was not enough to know it, but it certainly felt like a country and people in repression. Of all the country's I have been too it is the one that i dislike the most. 

Looking at Hong Kong now It is not hard to imagine the forthcoming invasion and murder of thousands. look at Tibet, Taiwan, the building of Islands in the South China Seas,  the repression of freedoms in the mainland, the control of currency and it would be easy to view the country as a powder keg waiting for a spark.

 

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

I was followed everywhere except in the GB village.

I'd go and talk to someone about these thoughts 😂

[Vince Green]

16 hours ago, KB1 said:

I had a feeling you would say that🙄  If you bothered to look at what I showed you, you would see that my father in law's company is in mainland China (Head office about an hours drive from Beijing); it just happened to float on the HKEX due to the benefits of the fastest growing exchange in Asia……..  Just to be clear, I'm talking about China👍

My wife is having a good laugh at the ignorance displayed on here by some about her homeland😁  

Its only what is being said on the investment websites, that's where I get my information from on a daily basis. 

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I'd go and talk to someone about these thoughts 😂

😂 I went to a dinner in Beijing where most of the lighting was UV. When I went to the loo all of the steps down were luminous. At the bottom of the steps was a black wall which lit up to reveal two large eyes. If you were male the eyes looked left pointing to the loo. If you were female they looked right. Unfortunately it was an all male dinner so I never got to try what happened if a male and female went down the steps together. I can only imagine that behind the wall was some worker operating a large wooden lever.

17 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Its only what is being said on the investment websites, that's where I get my information from on a daily basis. 

Sounds right to me.  

[henry d]

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The Romans did not "allow" Christianity to flourish. The Emperor Constantine imposed it forcibly  as the State religion in 313AD. And he did it for purely political reasons, he himself was not a Christian. How little you appear to know of history but then as a Communist yourself I don't suppose the history of Christianity is one of your strong points. Or the Romans it appears.

Constantine created the Holy Roman Empire by that action, As a result Rome became the centre of the Christian world, and a huge money spinner for the declining Roman Empire.

But what your point about Christianity  had to do with Chinese coal fired power stations is beyond me. A bit random don't you think? 

Tangent alert

I disagree, Constantine converted after his defeat of Maxentius (part of the Italian Tetrachy or rule of four) at the battle of Milvian bridge, and then went on to meet Licinius and issuing the edict of Milan, removing pagan symbols on coins and encouraging Roman subjects to become Christian.

So I am fairly sure he was a Christian,

I didn`t do too bad a college, I got a 15 out of 20 for my final assessment of early church history (and eventually an upper second clas BA) and if you are studying that then you have no option but to read Roman history, or Seleucid/Hellenistic history etc etc. I was then going to waffle on bout primary and secondary source material such as Melito`s apology to Marcus Aurelius and so on but you would know all about that eh?

I would say that you started the digression when you mentioned the Romans, so “…Physician heal thyself…”

 

[KB1]

10 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its only what is being said on the investment websites, that's where I get my information from on a daily basis. 

Either you're reading it wrong, or the info is wrong😳  because it's certainly wrong🤪

9 hours ago, oowee said:

10 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its only what is being said on the investment websites, that's where I get my information from on a daily basis. 

Sounds right to me.  

🥴

[KB1]

12 hours ago, oowee said:

I have only been to China once for the Olympics in 2008, I was working for the Government here and traveling on a tourist visa. I had my bags impounded at the airport and had to pay £275 tax to get them back. I was followed everywhere except in the GB village. One of my team was denied entry to an event simply for having an epi pen even with a chinese doc's ticket. At the Birds Nest there were people with placards with instructions to clap or cheer. At the end of the event only the foreigners left. I am sure there is a lot to learn about the country and one visit was not enough to know it, but it certainly felt like a country and people in repression. Of all the country's I have been too it is the one that i dislike the most. 

Looking at Hong Kong now It is not hard to imagine the forthcoming invasion and murder of thousands. look at Tibet, Taiwan, the building of Islands in the South China Seas,  the repression of freedoms in the mainland, the control of currency and it would be easy to view the country as a powder keg waiting for a spark.

 

Does a different culture = repression?

A typical stroll through Beijing……….   People buying all the latest designer labels, sat in open air bars, drinking and listening to popular music, people having a cigarette just about anywhere they like……. having traditional food or Pizza Hut, or McDonalds etc etc etc…..   Pretty much like being in London, but without the same amount of fear of being knifed or mugged🥴

Yes, some places are wary of the 'tourist', as they are all too aware of how the Western Media paint their country.  

One thing the Chinese authorities won't tolerate is mass mobs determined to cause disruption (Should happen here a bit more), but most people I have met over the years don't appear to suffer from repression, as this in the opinion of many Chinese people is seen more as something of an uninformed Western opinion, judged by our own idea of 'freedom'…….

Just as you formed an opinion that it felt like a 'country and people in repression', they too have an opinion that in our country the Gweilo (Red Devil Foreigner) are lazy, sub-educated, promiscuous and undisciplined🥴  

Having said all of that, its a place I'm always happy to get home from😊  BUT……. too much reliance on contorted media reporting can leave you with beliefs such as previously demonstrated whereby 'Chinese whispers' would have us believe that all businesses are government owned🙄 when in fact there are more privately owned businesses than our country could shake a stick at👅