BSA Ultra shot count

[gmm243]

Evening,

What would be considered to an average shot count for a .22 BSA Ultra?I have one and the shot count from fill is dropping badly.I fired 10 shots at a target today and from the 7th the power was dropping very noticeably.I have also noticed that it does not take the same pressure when filling,it used to be over 200 bar but now seems to be full at around 130.

There are possibly a load of variables between models that I have not given details on but in general I would have expected a lot more shots per fill.Any advice or thoughts that might get more out of this gun for me?

Thanks.

[Ttfjlc]

Do you fill off a dive cylinder bud? If so it may need refilling 

[Ultrastu]

Sounds like your bottle is nearly empty ..

A .22 bsa ultra se .should fill to around 220 bar and shoot down to abput 110 bar for about 55 - 60 shots .with 16 grn pellets .going roughly from 10.8 fpe at 220 bar to 11.3 fpe at 170 bar .back to 10.8 fpe at 110 bar .

Hope this illuminates the way 

I notice your in NI .What energy are you running this ultra at  ?

[gmm243]

Thanks for the responses,I am running it off a dive bottle but it was recently refilled and would only have had about 15 fills since then.

I know that now I am going to sound stupid but I don't know what power she is running at.I am in Northern Ireland which means that all guns have to be put on an FAC regardless of them being shotguns,rifles or air guns (Again regardless of being sub 12ftlb or not).I asked when I got it but can not really remember what I was told although 13ftlb sticks in my mind.

Even when she was filling to over 200 bar I would never had more than 30 shots or less without noticing the pressure dropping which would suggest to me there is something not right.It does not seem to be leaking either.

Thanks

[Ultrastu]

It could be badly set up with the internal valving ..if its running around 22 fpe  easily done (then 25 shots would be normal  l 

[gmm243]

Is there an easy way to get it fixed or would it be better being sent to a professional to get it properly serviced?

[Arron yeates]

Best thing to do is buy a chronograph or take it to the shop at 220 bar fill get them to chrono it and see if they will wright down the figures of each shot then post them on here and we will help work it out 😉

[gmm243]

Thanks for that.Am tied up at work today but will bring the gun and bottle to the shop tomorrow to get both filled. A man at work has a chronograph so I will borrow that and put the results up here.

[Ultrastu]

On Sun Mar 08 2020 at 21:44, gmm243 said:

Even when she was filling to over 200 bar I would never had more than 30 shots or less without noticing the pressure dropping which would suggest to me there is something not right.It does not seem to be leaking either.

I would expect a bsa ultra se  that only does 30 good shots from 200 bar to be doing about 17 fpe .

[Arron yeates]

On 10/03/2020 at 11:01, aston_shooter said:

I think .177 is quoted as 40 shots in standard form, and .22 is 50 shots, so you should get at least 50.

Definitely either running very hot or has a valve problem.

And yeah, better to chrono it yourself if possible, RFD might not be too happy about giving it back to you if it's running very hot.

Doesnt matter what power it is there all on licence there mate

[louisvanhovell]

My mmc Ultra .22 does 60 consistent shots on a 230 bar fill (220 mm cylinder). 

[Ultrastu]

At what energy ? 

[gmm243]

So I finally managed to get all sorted out and took a look at the rifle.Firstly got the bottle filled again but also borrowed another one. The borrowed bottle filled the gun to just over 200bar-prob 210 or so. I filled the gun and took a shot through the chrono.It registered 690.9 feet per second.I then put a few magazines through the gun and noticed that with the higher filling  pressure level I was getting more shots at what seemed a consistent level of power.I did not chrono it every shot due to the rain but watched the point of impact.After about 26/28 shots I noticed the pellets start to drop.I did chrono again after shot number 30 and it read 544.6 fps. I could have gone on until empty but it was pouring down and although I was dry in a hay shed I was getting soaked running out to check the zero.Maybe not the most scientific test but certainly still under the amount of shots per fill I would expect but I am not sure what power it is running at so maybe it is high powered and with the small cylinder this is normal? Thanks in advance for advice.

[Ultrastu]

5 minutes ago, gmm243 said:

So I finally managed to get all sorted out and took a look at the rifle.Firstly got the bottle filled again but also borrowed another one. The borrowed bottle filled the gun to just over 200bar-prob 210 or so. I filled the gun and took a shot through the chrono.It registered 690.9 feet per second.I then put a few magazines through the gun and noticed that with the higher filling  pressure level I was getting more shots at what seemed a consistent level of power.I did not chrono it every shot due to the rain but watched the point of impact.After about 26/28 shots I noticed the pellets start to drop.I did chrono again after shot number 30 and it read 544.6 fps. I could have gone on until empty but it was pouring down and although I was dry in a hay shed I was getting soaked running out to check the zero.Maybe not the most scientific test but certainly still under the amount of shots per fill I would expect but I am not sure what power it is running at so maybe it is high powered and with the small cylinder this is normal? Thanks in advance for advice.

What pellets are you using and which cal please .?

I can help .

[gmm243]

Thank you.

Am using accupels in .22.Not sure of weight of pellet.

[Ultrastu]

So 690 fps with 14.3 gen accupells is 15 fpe  .

Id expect a bsa ultra se ?? 

To give around 40 shots at this energy from about 225 bar down to about 120 bar  .if the valving is working properly .

Which if you  got 544 fps after 30 shots it isnt  .as thats 9.4 fpe  

[gmm243]

Thank you for that, what would you do now?

There are some very good gunsmiths here but I am not sure if any of them deal with air guns, as far as I am aware they all fix either shotguns or rifles.That sort of leaves an alternative of sending it away to get sorted or are the valves/seals something that you could fix yourself?

[Ultrastu]

What i would do now is fill the gun up properly to 230 bar and do a full shot string down to 100 bar .and figure out the best pressure range to shoot it over and the peak energy and where it comes in that shot string .

Id look at the shot to shot variation and decide if its acceptable or not .

Also the gun is tuneable up or down and it depends on what power u want  and what shot count you will find acceptable. 

[gmm243]

There is no visible gauge on my gun, it must be the older model.

Is there a benefit to getting it tuned or a larger air cylinder fitted?

[Ultrastu]

Right so its the older mmc model with the front push button cocking system ?

These tend to run At lower pressures than the newer se models and hence lower shot count .

If you put a longer air tube on it ,its likely that it will foul your silencer on the barrel. 

Also i dont know anyone doing longer air tubes now .they were very popular a few year ago .but less so now .

Thats not to say  they cant be found .

 

U still havent said what energy u would like it to run at  ?

[gmm243]

Yes,it is one with the front push cocking system. I am not sure what energy I want it to run at,I know that 12ft/lbs legal limit seems to be adequate for a lot of shooting and indeed will be for most of  mine but I would prefer to have a few more shots per fill than running to the bottle every while.

What does the 690fps work out at in ft/lbs? 

This morning I fired it til empty and refilled it with the borrowed bottle to just over 200 bar.If I get a chance today I will fire it off and see just exactly how I get on.The last of the pellets I fired yesterday (approx 30) were half protruding through the paper of the target  and were just slightly lodged into the wood backstop. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, there is not a lot you can do with this model as mentioned, most just had theirs regulated, you could contact John Bowkett via face book or try 0121 745 4287   if you join the UK airgun forum there may be members in NI that can help you, if you join PM me your ady and will help you find a member to help hopefully  near you

Edited March 16, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[Ultrastu]

If i were in your shoes id tune my gun to the 750 fps region with falcon pellets for around 17 fpe this would make  your trajectory similar to a .177 pellet for a 35 yds zero .

Id expect to get about 30 shots at this energy  .

And id go out and enjoy it .

If i wanted significantly more shots from a pcp (say 60 + ) id buy a different gun  

If you get chance .do i full shot string like i described above and post it on here this will help diagnose  any issues .

I suspect that  the gun you have was a sub 12 that has been messed with 

[gmm243]

Thank you all who replied and offered advice.

As you can see I am no expert in air rifles and don't use them an awful lot.I bought this Ultra mainly for my kids to use as it is a more manageable size for them and they have loved it and to be honest still do so I don't think I will change it just yet. I know there are better options out there but presently it will have to do.

What I plan to do is try some other pellets as suggested and see what difference they make.I was hoping to fire her to empty this morning but there was such good weather I spent the morning cutting up an oak tree that has been down since the autumn.I will get round to it this week and report any findings.  When I brought the bottle to the gun shop to get filled they were trying to sell me an air arms but I didn't bite. I will also join the airgun forum and see what is on offer over here.I am not that aware of many folk having air rifles,most seem to have .22 rim fire or nowadays .17's.

Thanks again for all your advice and.for taking the time to respond. 

 

[Dangerous Brian]

On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 21:32, Ultrastu said:

Right so its the older mmc model with the front push button cocking system ?

These tend to run At lower pressures than the newer se models and hence lower shot count .

If you put a longer air tube on it ,its likely that it will foul your silencer on the barrel. 

Also i dont know anyone doing longer air tubes now .they were very popular a few year ago .but less so now .

Thats not to say  they cant be found .

 

U still havent said what energy u would like it to run at  ?

Airtech air rifles are still doing replacement tubes in steel or titanium. Like Ultrastu says, you will probably end up fouling the silencer unless you fit a barrel extension (1/2" UNF thread) or go for a skinny silencer of some sort (Parker Hale I think was recommended by XTX?)