Tories to ban more guns.

[enfieldspares]

15 minutes ago, 1066 said:

I can't believe one or two of the replies here - Same old story, it won't effect me and I can't see why anyone would want an antique gun so go ahead and ban them with my blessing.

Thank you. 

[Scully]

22 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

correct

yes correct, collectors can still own them but they need to be on their licence and therefore secure them. 

Yes this is exactly the point it has no effect on a legal owner.

It does have an effect on criminals using them going forwards...

 

But it does effect legal ownership as they will now be obliged to pay for a license, and for security, so can no longer display them in their own homes, and as far as I know can only sell to someone else who has a license for that particular calibre, thereby effecting sellers and collectors. 
Those who don’t care about laws will just carry on regardless. 
 

[Terry2016]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

But it does effect legal ownership as they will now be obliged to pay for a license, and for security, so can no longer display them in their own homes, and as far as I know can only sell to someone else who has a license for that particular calibre, thereby effecting sellers and collectors. 
Those who don’t care about laws will just carry on regardless. 
 

The alternative is that most likely they will be banned ? 

I agree the costs to legal shooters are unreasonable, however the security is something that is needed, if they can be stolen they can be used as a weapon and that will lead to even tighter restriction. 

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, Terry2016 said:

The alternative is that most likely they will be banned ? 

I agree the costs to legal shooters are unreasonable, however the security is something that is needed, if they can be stolen they can be used as a weapon and that will lead to even tighter restriction. 

They could ban them but that would just drive them underground then no one would know where they were, so they license them; registration means they know who has them and in what quantities. Some won’t bother; I know I wouldn’t. 
If your logic is to be followed I’m assuming you’ll be locking away all your kitchen knives, after all, it’s those that are most commonly used in knifings I’m led to believe. 

[stuartyboy]

1 hour ago, 1066 said:

In the absence of "antique guns" they would just as easily have acquired modern illegal guns

I agree with your post and disagree with this proposed 'ban' however I've argued the following point before.  Illegal firearms are not readily available to most criminals and thats why they resort to using antique guns, converted de acts, brococks etc etc. 

The government has obviously decided that the enjoyment of these guns to the many collectors of them, does not outweigh the risks posed by the criminal use of them. Not saying I agree with it but its unfortunately another chipping away at shooting that will lead to its demise.

[Applepress]

This does concern me. They are chipping away the gun shooting/collecting community when in fact almost anything can be used to kill or assault someone. I for one don't fancy the sharp end of a knitting needle or being clubbed by a frozen leg of lamb.

As someone who has a penchant for old guns this is quite irksome but I am also very aware of how relatively easy it is to obtain obsolete ammunition which brings these guns back into service, not to mention how readily available reloading equipment is for some of them. As I have a gun room rather than a cabinet my security is already in place and I am able to continue displaying my collection.

The government are I'm afraid damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[billytheghillie]

On 10/11/2020 at 16:48, Smokersmith said:

The whole 'obsolete calibre' thing is WIDE open to abuse.

Any Tom **** or Harry can pick these up and with a bit of shopping around be able to knock off the local post office etc.

The legislation makes perfect sense to me.

Why is Richard starred out?

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC comment on this policy development:

Antique firearms law change will bring clarity, says BASC

BASC is advising members that the government will lay regulations in parliament that will define ‘antique firearm’ in law.

This is confirmed in the government’s response to a consultation that BASC fed into on proposals for implementing legislation to define antique firearms.

Key features will be:

• specifying 1 September 1939 as the cut-off date of manufacture after which a firearm cannot be considered as antique.
• Seven cartridges will be removed from the definition.
• 23 cartridges will be added to the definition.

A “reference group” will be established and will include representatives from law enforcement, the antique firearms trade, museums and collectors.

BASC’s director of firearms Bill Harriman said: “The regulations will give firearm owners and dealers legal clarity on the definition of the term “antique firearm” and BASC has been lobbying for many years to secure this.

“However, the restrictions being proposed for some types of ammunition are not supported by the unaudited figures supplied by the police. BASC will be challenging this, as many people will have invested their money into items which public policy over the last 14 years said they could own without restriction.

“The prohibited list of ammunition types will be reviewed every three years and BASC will be seeking membership of the review panel.”

A Home Office press release says the law change will take place “shortly after Parliament approves the legislation”.

More information can be found in the Home Office press release here.

The consultation outcome page can be found here.

BASC previously said it believed proposals to change the laws on antique firearms would provide clarity and certainty that has been missing for more than a century.

[Scully]

I’m not really sure how that can be described as ‘clarity’. The cut off date is clear enough, but doesn’t that depend on which cartridge any particular firearm is designed for.
For example, the .44 S&W Schofield dates back to the 1800’s, so it will be classed as an antique, unless it’s chambered for the .44 S&W Russian, which is a black powder cartridge from the same period. It was chambered for quite a few others also, some of which are still in production. Have I got this right? 

[Terry2016]

On 12/11/2020 at 20:10, Scully said:

They could ban them but that would just drive them underground then no one would know where they were, so they license them; registration means they know who has them and in what quantities. Some won’t bother; I know I wouldn’t. 
If your logic is to be followed I’m assuming you’ll be locking away all your kitchen knives, after all, it’s those that are most commonly used in knifings I’m led to believe. 

The issue is Antique firearms being used as weapons, yes they could use a kitchen knife ? (doesn't have the same range, but effective at close quarters..) the trouble is they have chosen antique firearms... 

To the average person in the street a gun is a gun they do not know any different so if this reduces the impact on everyday shooters then this is a positive, there are issues with it ... cost to the legal user i agree but i fear its this or an outright ban. 

 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, Terry2016 said:

The issue is Antique firearms being used as weapons, yes they could use a kitchen knife ? (doesn't have the same range, but effective at close quarters..) the trouble is they have chosen antique firearms... 

To the average person in the street a gun is a gun they do not know any different so if this reduces the impact on everyday shooters then this is a positive, there are issues with it ... cost to the legal user i agree but i fear its this or an outright ban. 

 

But it doesn’t reduce the impact on everyday shooters, all it does is enforce the message and therefore the policy that it’s easier to legislate against the law abiding than actually tackle the problem.
It’s nothing more than a quick fix until the next problem comes along.

There are a LOT of antique shotguns out there with much more easily available ammo....just a thought.