Peregrine falcons.

[Mice!]

Great video,  I watched the Norwich Cathedral one afterwards as well,  great view from up there and shows just how brutal nature really is. 

And how noisy are they when they bring food to the nest.

[NatureBoy]

On 10/12/2020 at 21:38, JDog said:

Do you think that the RSPB and other supporters of birds of prey understand about population density and 'carrying capacity'?

Of course not.

They Know all right! They are not going to admit to a success story JD. Unless it helps fill their coffers. It's been said that a lot of peregrines in the wild today are not pure bred. Crossed with escapees and released birds. A fella whose name i can't remember? put in for a licence to take limited number of eggs from wild birds where population high and breed them up in captivity to boost a pure gene pool. Of cause RSPB and RPUK WJ and Co were againest this. Saying it was really to supply middle east falconry market. Perhaps the falconry boys will know more? . . . . . . . RSPB now trying to get involved with the successes we have had with turtle doves in Suffolk and Norfolk. Actually specifying our particular area in Suffolk. Wanting farmers to bid in some reverse auction for funding. How RSPB and WJ have been lately i don't think many will be taking it up. And what they don't want to admit/ publicise those successes have many come from farms with shoots using targeted pest control.        NB

[WalkedUp]

Thought I saw a peregrine yesterday with a client up near Parbold on a big shooting estate. Very fast and large coming off a derelict grain silo and drying barns. Barred but too heavy to be a sparrowhawk. A barn owl cane out the same building and a kestrel landed 20 ft from us atop a spruce, great biodiversity created by shooting. 

[Mice!]

15 hours ago, NatureBoy said:

And what they don't want to admit/ publicise those successes have many come from farms with shoots using targeted pest control.        NB

Could you imagine them admitting that pest control has benefits,  I can't. 

[NatureBoy]

7 hours ago, Mice! said:

Could you imagine them admitting that pest control has benefits,  I can't. 

That's the two faced irony of if it Mice. Because it is something they have been doing themselves for many years! Even Avery spoke of them snaring foxes years ago and encouraged farms surrounding reserves to do like wise. 40+ foxes ki;lled on there flagship reserve Minsmere in 2019 by July alone. It's simple! Reserves no different to Shoot/ conservation. If you create the right habitat in an intensified area birds and critters will naturally be attracted in higher numbers and be sucessful. But doing so also attracts higher numbers of predators. Particularly larger generalist  ground predators. Aint got to be a scientist to work out while numbers of rare/ endangered species we/they are trying to help are low targeted pest control is necessary to help increase numbers. They do it and know it works as we do! Thing with them they need funds from a public who have a Disneyfied limited understanding of how real conservation works. Increasingly more are simply againest controlling/killing or doing anything. That's the widening disconnect! Look how so many have thrown their toys out of the pram over the bit of river/choke point that's been cleared up. EA used to be on it with river maintenance. Sadly funding and box ticking now comes before conservation!  . . . . .I supported their deer cull at Minsmere. 300+ Mainly reds. Numbers should not have been allowed to get so high. Would like to see figures/results of? As i don't know of any estate that has culled so many in such a short space of time  . . . . . .Countryfile on the Stour estuary this week.   NB

[islandgun]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

Could you imagine them admitting that pest control has benefits,  I can't. 

I spent years being paid by rspb and others to remove mink to conserve rare bird spp

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, islandgun said:

I spent years being paid by rspb and others to remove mink to conserve rare bird spp

But did they publicise it? Was it in any of there magazines?

We know it goes on all across the country but they keep quiet and shoots take flak for controlling predators just the same as they do.

[islandgun]

10 hours ago, Mice! said:

But did they publicise it? Was it in any of there magazines?

We know it goes on all across the country but they keep quiet and shoots take flak for controlling predators just the same as they do.

It was widely known. i didnt look on their magazines, they have also recently removed the black rat from an Island to allow Puffins to breed

Shiant Isles | Project

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

It was widely known. i didnt look on their magazines, they have also recently removed the black rat from an Island to allow Puffins to breed

Shiant Isles | Project

Thanks for that,  sounds like a very remote spot.

But it's not the general pest control that others get blasted for like crow or fox control, all I could see was that they were removing the black rat, did they manage it?

[NatureBoy]

On 13/12/2020 at 19:42, islandgun said:

I spent years being paid by rspb and others to remove mink to conserve rare bird spp

Did it pay as well as the Orkney stoat project IG?.😉 6 million. £80.00 a stoat. What you make of it? Would you say their bycatch figures about right againest numbers of stoats trapped? . . . . There was programme on the river Deben in Suffolk a while back, Just the Wildlife Trust admitted to trapping over 22,000 mink on that river alone. . . . . I wish there was more clarity of pest control the "conservation" orgs do. It would help educate general public. I don't think they would loose members/donors if they had more understanding of what they do and how it worked. . . . . . My uncle used to trap/kill coypu's in 70/80's for EA in his spare time. Mainly on the Deben. Payed per critter. Said at the start he could make more on a weekend than he did all week at work. . . . . .Didn't see mink about until antis released a load from a fur farm near Eye in early 80's. About a week later they were in our fishing lakes 7ml away got into the rivers and just carried on spreading. Quickly noticed a drop in numbers of moorhen, coot, gc grebes and as we later found out water voles.           NB            

[islandgun]

8 hours ago, NatureBoy said:

Did it pay as well as the Orkney stoat project IG?.😉 6 million. £80.00 a stoat. What you make of it? Would you say their bycatch figures about right againest numbers of stoats trapped? . . . . There was programme on the river Deben in Suffolk a while back, Just the Wildlife Trust admitted to trapping over 22,000 mink on that river alone. . . . . I wish there was more clarity of pest control the "conservation" orgs do. It would help educate general public. I don't think they would loose members/donors if they had more understanding of what they do and how it worked. . . . . . My uncle used to trap/kill coypu's in 70/80's for EA in his spare time. Mainly on the Deben. Payed per critter. Said at the start he could make more on a weekend than he did all week at work. . . . . .Didn't see mink about until antis released a load from a fur farm near Eye in early 80's. About a week later they were in our fishing lakes 7ml away got into the rivers and just carried on spreading. Quickly noticed a drop in numbers of moorhen, coot, gc grebes and as we later found out water voles.           NB            

Hmm..  I was paid a wage and trapped 5 days a week, The way i see it is its better to remove the mink now, than later build a museum to show people images of the birds that used to live here in the old days, it was escapees [or released] animals from fur farms that started the problem.. 22,000 ! my word i can only imagine the decimation that caused. Most people will readily accept theres a problem when shown the facts and will help where they can even its its simply reporting sightings, |Im sure the conservation orgs carry out a lot of pest control, perhaps around tern nest sights etc its only the cranks like wj and monbiot furthering their careers that will see the end of our native spp

[NatureBoy]

26 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Hmm..  I was paid a wage and trapped 5 days a week, The way i see it is its better to remove the mink now, than later build a museum to show people images of the birds that used to live here in the old days, it was escapees [or released] animals from fur farms that started the problem.. 22,000 ! my word i can only imagine the decimation that caused. Most people will readily accept theres a problem when shown the facts and will help where they can even its its simply reporting sightings, |Im sure the conservation orgs carry out a lot of pest control, perhaps around tern nest sights etc its only the cranks like wj and monbiot furthering their careers that will see the end of our native spp

It was just the Suffolk Wildlife Trust that said they trapped that many on the programme. I thought it high to. It didn't say over what time scale, so may of been clever editing, Even so that is a lot of mink for one local "conservation " org, even over say the 40yrs since first releases. I am sure public would be more open minded about targeted pest control if all orgs were more open about what and how they do it. RSPB alone killed 600 foxes last year. More than any estate. I wonder if they getting dumped urban foxes. Some appear very bold/tame round Minsmere/Dunwich . . . Interesting that mink in the news today. CV19 been found for first time in wild (USA) population. I didn't realise that so many thousands of captive mink have been killed already because of. I have killed very few but 2 of those were this year . . . .Little/common terns had great breeding year in Norfolk. Best since 1995. 154 pairs of LTs fledged 201 chick on end of Blakeney point and Scalt head. Also 289 pairs of CTs raised 170 chicks. Successes' thought due to less disturbance cos of CV19. Again a hedgehog cleared out 75 nests in 2 nights one year. That was kept quiet as i am sure other large ground predator predation is. BBC have never shown the Spring Watch footage of badgers trashing ALL the avocet nests at Minsmere again      NB

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, NatureBoy said:

It was just the Suffolk Wildlife Trust that said they trapped that many on the programme. I thought it high to. It didn't say over what time scale, so may of been clever editing, Even so that is a lot of mink for one local "conservation " org, even over say the 40yrs since first releases. I am sure public would be more open minded about targeted pest control if all orgs were more open about what and how they do it. RSPB alone killed 600 foxes last year. More than any estate. I wonder if they getting dumped urban foxes. Some appear very bold/tame round Minsmere/Dunwich . . . Interesting that mink in the news today. CV19 been found for first time in wild (USA) population. I didn't realise that so many thousands of captive mink have been killed already because of. I have killed very few but 2 of those were this year . . . .Little/common terns had great breeding year in Norfolk. Best since 1995. 154 pairs of LTs fledged 201 chick on end of Blakeney point and Scalt head. Also 289 pairs of CTs raised 170 chicks. Successes' thought due to less disturbance cos of CV19. Again a hedgehog cleared out 75 nests in 2 nights one year. That was kept quiet as i am sure other large ground predator predation is. BBC have never shown the Spring Watch footage of badgers trashing ALL the avocet nests at Minsmere again      NB

An old college mate of mine was high up in the NT at Blakeney, he was concerned about foxes and mink at the point, my advice was ring fence the nest sites and shoot or live trap what they could. I see theres a huge number of seals there now and wonder how the local fish stocks will support them, I guess they will just disperse N and S, Good to hear terns are on the increase. I expect hedgehogs will be trapped in Lewis soon [as they were in the Uist's] an introduced spp that were live trapped and shipped back to the mainland, interesting footage of them wandering about the ground nesting birds and cleaning out the nest's. oh well if monbiot gets his way there wont be any habitat left for ground nesting birds just trees and Lynx.. 

[The Heron]

On 09/12/2020 at 20:22, Raja Clavata said:

They don't kill for the sake of it and are not an alien species, in the big scheme of things not a problem I feel and, as other have said, a sight to behold.

The ones in London are feeding on feral pigeons.

👍 

[NatureBoy]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

An old college mate of mine was high up in the NT at Blakeney, he was concerned about foxes and mink at the point, my advice was ring fence the nest sites and shoot or live trap what they could. I see theres a huge number of seals there now and wonder how the local fish stocks will support them, I guess they will just disperse N and S, Good to hear terns are on the increase. I expect hedgehogs will be trapped in Lewis soon [as they were in the Uist's] an introduced spp that were live trapped and shipped back to the mainland, interesting footage of them wandering about the ground nesting birds and cleaning out the nest's. oh well if monbiot gets his way there wont be any habitat left for ground nesting birds just trees and Lynx.. 

Numbers of seals seem to of exploded along Norfolk/Suffolk coast just like deer have in land. Boyh got to change populations, habitat and behaviour of other species that ant doing so well. . . . With increased disturbance fewer volunteers to keep watch all shore/groung nesting birds are going to struggle. CV19 has meant more staycationers (more dogs) heading for and camping on the coast and sensitive habitat. . . . . And still the likes of Me, Me, Me, Monbiot, Shrubsole, Hayes (book of trespass) calling for more rites to roam. Crazy! We have seen the amount of litter the ignorant leave and damage (fires) they cause this year alone. Obviously backed by bandwagoners CP WJ and Co. There reasoning if they can't have access they can't learn about and how to respect/value nature. Really!!!! . . . . Monbiot bleating and stirring up the rabid keyboard sheep about NFU and some farmers wanting to use Neonics as seed dressing again. Mainly for sugar beet, as yealds have been so hard hit. How will this affect bees and pollinators? Already been said that because less rape is being grown now because of ban it is affecting them and other pollinators. Is there a take up of neonics in the crop or following crop that affects insects as they claim? I have certainly noticed a lot more and different insects about in last few year with changes in/varied cropping locally. . . . . Interesting that the massive explosion in pink foot numbers (40,000+) over wintering in Norfolk and the wash is linked to amount of, where and how sugar beet is grown and harvested. Use of neonics or not may have an effect on both.   So many pinks now that they are having a negative effect on the habitat in their Artic breeding grounds. One report said only 1,800 (and falling) were shot in UK annually?)  Same has been said for snow geese in the States. Just shows even more that correct balance and management is so important and can have such a large effect.                     NB        

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, NatureBoy said:

Numbers of seals seem to of exploded along Norfolk/Suffolk coast just like deer have in land. Boyh got to change populations, habitat and behaviour of other species that ant doing so well. . . . With increased disturbance fewer volunteers to keep watch all shore/groung nesting birds are going to struggle. CV19 has meant more staycationers (more dogs) heading for and camping on the coast and sensitive habitat. . . . . And still the likes of Me, Me, Me, Monbiot, Shrubsole, Hayes (book of trespass) calling for more rites to roam. Crazy! We have seen the amount of litter the ignorant leave and damage (fires) they cause this year alone. Obviously backed by bandwagoners CP WJ and Co. There reasoning if they can't have access they can't learn about and how to respect/value nature. Really!!!! . . . . Monbiot bleating and stirring up the rabid keyboard sheep about NFU and some farmers wanting to use Neonics as seed dressing again. Mainly for sugar beet, as yealds have been so hard hit. How will this affect bees and pollinators? Already been said that because less rape is being grown now because of ban it is affecting them and other pollinators. Is there a take up of neonics in the crop or following crop that affects insects as they claim? I have certainly noticed a lot more and different insects about in last few year with changes in/varied cropping locally. . . . . Interesting that the massive explosion in pink foot numbers (40,000+) over wintering in Norfolk and the wash is linked to amount of, where and how sugar beet is grown and harvested. Use of neonics or not may have an effect on both.   So many pinks now that they are having a negative effect on the habitat in their Artic breeding grounds. One report said only 1,800 (and falling) were shot in UK annually?)  Same has been said for snow geese in the States. Just shows even more that correct balance and management is so important and can have such a large effect.                     NB        

TBH Im thinking more insects are better than higher beet yields, perhaps when wj get shooting stopped they will invent other ways of keeping geese numbers down such as introducing more and bigger predators.. Of course when monbiots followers ban agriculture the lack of food will kill them off anyway....and everything else 🙃

[Mice!]

5 hours ago, NatureBoy said:

Again a hedgehog cleared out 75 nests in 2 nights one year. That was kept quiet as i am sure other large ground predator predation is. BBC have never shown the Spring Watch footage of badgers trashing ALL the avocet nests at Minsmere again      NB

I new hedgehogs took eggs but I wouldn't have expected them to take those sort of numbers, and I've never seen the badger footage, I'm surprised the bbc showed it in the first place, they only eat worms!

I saw a video earlier in the year showing gulls ( not sure of the type now) working across a moor, it looked like the best beating line you've ever seen,  doubtful many eggs or chicks were left behind.

3 hours ago, islandgun said:

my advice was ring fence the nest sites

I was given a RSPB subscription one year and they had done this somewhere,  the cost must have been extreme to say the least.

Sorry but what is spp, I'm sure I'll kick myself. 

3 hours ago, islandgun said:

expect hedgehogs will be trapped in Lewis soon [as they were in the Uist's] an introduced spp that were live trapped and shipped back to the mainland

 

[islandgun]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

I new hedgehogs took eggs but I wouldn't have expected them to take those sort of numbers, and I've never seen the badger footage, I'm surprised the bbc showed it in the first place, they only eat worms!

I saw a video earlier in the year showing gulls ( not sure of the type now) working across a moor, it looked like the best beating line you've ever seen,  doubtful many eggs or chicks were left behind.

I was given a RSPB subscription one year and they had done this somewhere,  the cost must have been extreme to say the least.

Sorry but what is spp, I'm sure I'll kick myself. 

 

spp was the posh way wot i learned at uni to shorten the word species..😉

[NatureBoy]

21 hours ago, islandgun said:

TBH Im thinking more insects are better than higher beet yields, perhaps when wj get shooting stopped they will invent other ways of keeping geese numbers down such as introducing more and bigger predators.. Of course when monbiots followers ban agriculture the lack of food will kill them off anyway....and everything else 🙃

It might go that way if farmers stop growing sugar beet because reduced yelds mean it not worth it. Less beet, fewer geese! Then we will be importing more cane sugar leading to more land being trashed and chemicals used in those countries to grow it. Didn't realise neonics used so widely and so potent when not applied correctly. Even just as a seed dressing. If just the dust off seed when blown planting drifts on to neighbouring pollenating crop it can kill bees on it. Makes ya wonder about the increasing nerve/mental health probs we are getting as we must be taking it up to? Must have been known years ago! Them big greedy chemical companies powerful lot! Producing chems killing our environment/us and now producing another to try and save us! Nature is not done with spanking our *** yet! . . . . Sadly unsustainable growing population/developing countries wants feeding for minimum cost. . .   All going to be grown in labs according to Monbiot. . . . I wonder of wolf and Lynx will ever be on GL? Nice beaver! 😉        NB

[islandgun]

26 minutes ago, NatureBoy said:

It might go that way if farmers stop growing sugar beet because reduced yelds mean it not worth it. Less beet, fewer geese! Then we will be importing more cane sugar leading to more land being trashed and chemicals used in those countries to grow it. Didn't realise neonics used so widely and so potent when not applied correctly. Even just as a seed dressing. If just the dust off seed when blown planting drifts on to neighbouring pollenating crop it can kill bees on it. Makes ya wonder about the increasing nerve/mental health probs we are getting as we must be taking it up to? Must have been known years ago! Them big greedy chemical companies powerful lot! Producing chems killing our environment/us and now producing another to try and save us! Nature is not done with spanking our *** yet! . . . . Sadly unsustainable growing population/developing countries wants feeding for minimum cost. . .   All going to be grown in labs according to Monbiot. . . . I wonder of wolf and Lynx will ever be on GL? Nice beaver! 😉        NB

Possibly the only way forward is GM. NOT to make crops resistant to roundup but bred to resist pest's and diseases, drought, also being capable of nitrogen fixing, reduce chemicals and most importantly look after the soil as it represents not only the biggest carbon sink after oceans but good soil will improve yields and increase bio-diversity. I dont have a problem with lab food TBH more of a problem with feed lot beef or the so called factory farming......who doesn't enjoy a nice beaver..😄

[NatureBoy]

21 hours ago, Mice! said:

I new hedgehogs took eggs but I wouldn't have expected them to take those sort of numbers, and I've never seen the badger footage, I'm surprised the bbc showed it in the first place, they only eat worms!

I saw a video earlier in the year showing gulls ( not sure of the type now) working across a moor, it looked like the best beating line you've ever seen,  doubtful many eggs or chicks were left behind.

I was given a RSPB subscription one year and they had done this somewhere,  the cost must have been extreme to say the least.

Sorry but what is spp, I'm sure I'll kick myself. 

 

 It was a few years back Mice. Surprising hey. Info was on the little tern website. Happened to colony in north Suffolk. Gal i knew who was a volunteer/watcher that year spoke of it to. It's Really not uncommon. Egg collectors to. Hence 24/7 Watch on some colonies in breeding season. They use decoys/caller to try and get them to nest in safer places. Terns struggling even more now! Increased disturbance and badger numbers don't help. But cos they aint gona say that. Though little terns did successfully breed at Minsmere last year for first time in many years in the now (sparky) predator fenced scrape since the badger footage. Cost £320,000, grants and funding (on other sites to). Looking more like a wildlife/theme park every year. Otters so common and bold(crowd puller) now to. Make you wonder if they captive bred/released? as feed confidant and close during daylight. Yet it was only a 10 years back they shot a eagle owl (hushed up) as they thought it might predate there (pin up) bitterns. . . . They have said themselves large gulls and ground predators an increasing problem. So WJ meddling in gull/GL licences not helping them at all. On our coast come Spring con orgs attempt to help terns/ breeding shore birds by putting up standard mesh electric fence a single rope and signage where they might nest. Usually with very limited success. Still see dog and human prints in these zones if big tides haven't washed fence out. Or trashed by horse like at Holcombe reserve this year, wiping out LT colony.  . . . . ,NB

[Mice!]

36 minutes ago, NatureBoy said:

 It was a few years back Mice. Surprising hey. Info was on the little tern website. Happened to colony in north Suffolk. Gal i knew who was a volunteer/watcher that year spoke of it to. It's Really not uncommon. Egg collectors to. Hence 24/7 Watch on some colonies in breeding season. They use decoys/caller to try and get them to nest in safer places. Terns struggling even more now! Increased disturbance and badger numbers don't help. But cos they aint gona say that. Though little terns did successfully breed at Minsmere last year for first time in many years in the now (sparky) predator fenced scrape since the badger footage. Cost £320,000, grants and funding (on other sites to). Looking more like a wildlife/theme park every year. Otters so common and bold(crowd puller) now to. Make you wonder if they captive bred/released? as feed confidant and close during daylight. Yet it was only a 10 years back they shot a eagle owl (hushed up) as they thought it might predate there (pin up) bitterns. . . . They have said themselves large gulls and ground predators an increasing problem. So WJ meddling in gull/GL licences not helping them at all. On our coast come Spring con orgs attempt to help terns/ breeding shore birds by putting up standard mesh electric fence a single rope and signage where they might nest. Usually with very limited success. Still see dog and human prints in these zones if big tides haven't washed fence out. Or trashed by horse like at Holcombe reserve this year, wiping out LT colony.  . . . . ,NB

Doesn't make good reading really does it.

£320,000 is crazy money really when its likely so few birds actually breeding, proper effective predator control would probably be more effective and cheaper. 

[NatureBoy]

40 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Possibly the only way forward is GM. NOT to make crops resistant to roundup but bred to resist pest's and diseases, drought, also being capable of nitrogen fixing, reduce chemicals and most importantly look after the soil as it represents not only the biggest carbon sink after oceans but good soil will improve yields and increase bio-diversity. I dont have a problem with lab food TBH more of a problem with feed lot beef or the so called factory farming......who doesn't enjoy a nice beaver..😄

I thought you meant GM as Me Me Me George Monbiot for a sec.😉      Sadly organic is not gona feed the world. Not really up on latest GM. Seen a lot taking up the new schemes and different ways of doing things my way with good results for them and environment. Just need lot more to take it up with the changes in payments coming! Like with us. Less rape, so Less pigeons in some areas. Yet to see them hitting these new crops either.        NB 

[NatureBoy]

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Doesn't make good reading really does it.

£320,000 is crazy money really when its likely so few birds actually breeding, proper effective predator control would probably be more effective and cheaper. 

Used to be lots of terns and ring plover nesting on most beaches in my youth. Being mobbed/dive bombed by them was all part of a Summer trip to rural beaches. Chicks and eggs really camouflaged and hard to spot. Predation, disturbance, less food off shore all to blame in declines.

That was just Minsmere to. Doesn't look right either. They have done/are doing the same at other reserves since the badger footage. C4PMC found and had the footage on there site the other week. 65ys and suddenly they need a very robust predator fence? What does that say about their management skills, predator control? I wonder how it affects the smaller predators and their numbers and behaviour? Stoats, weasels, mink, (increasingly polecats/crosses) hedgehogs, rats etc. They can pass through the fence (only 2 higher strands electric). Inside they are now protected from the larger predators that kept there numbers in check (kids in a sweet shop). Allowing them to breed more safely, their numbers to grow and have no competition for more of them to predate birds, nests and other endangered critters? Asked a staffer this after it went up. He just looked at me blank and wandered off. I can't find any data/info or study on the effects of on there website either? Strange that! Considering it such a dramatic sudden change to a managed (internationally) important habitat they got funding for? Same with any studies or results from such a big (300+) sudden deer cull they carried out? And still they killing 40+ foxes a year.       NB

[wickenuk]

On 10/12/2020 at 13:18, Eyefor said:

Is that a Peregrine trait too? I thought that was only Harriers - could be wrong.

yep ive seen a peregrine do that too