Help for people not on mains gas - ECO schemes

[udderlyoffroad]

Had a representative from this company round earlier to measure up my property.  ECO in this case stands for Energy Company Obligations

Apparently if someone living at the property is in receipt of benefits, and it's a poorly insulated property (grade E and below), there are fully funded grants available to add insulation, as well as upgrade the heating system and even fit PV.  Seems the money is raised from the green levy in your energy bill, so that particular pot must be quite full at the moment!

Will report back with any updates, but wondered if anyone else had used this scheme?  Here's the link to EDF's take page on the scheme

 

[discobob]

On the Solar Facebook groups there is not many good words said about the scheme/company

[udderlyoffroad]

Not on Faceache, hence asking here.

[Dave-G]

I recently had the insulation top ups and a condensing combi boiler replacement for a 40 ish years old boiler done one the ECO4 scheme. The combi boiler has a lot more exposed pipework beneath it so its best to build a cupboard over it with a removable door for the annual servicing.

I made a point of asking if it needs to be vented but apparently it draws any ventilation needed through the waste pipe or flue.

[udderlyoffroad]

Thanks Dave - per the thread title am not on mains gas so won't be getting a combi boiler.  Did see your thread on your boiler and if I'm honest wasn't that impressed with the quality of the pipe-stranglin', but as you say boxing-in hides many sins.

How was your experience with the ECO4 scheme as a whole though?  Which company were you with?

There is talk of a heat pump based system, but I need to wait till the 'technical survey' to see if it's feasible for this property.  Am sure it is as a they're starting from a 'blank canvas' - no existing wet system thus flows/temps can be designed from the ground up to be right.

[Dave-G]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Thanks Dave - per the thread title am not on mains gas so won't be getting a combi boiler.  Did see your thread on your boiler and if I'm honest wasn't that impressed with the quality of the pipe-stranglin', but as you say boxing-in hides many sins.

How was your experience with the ECO4 scheme as a whole though?  Which company were you with?

There is talk of a heat pump based system, but I need to wait till the 'technical survey' to see if it's feasible for this property.  Am sure it is as a they're starting from a 'blank canvas' - no existing wet system thus flows/temps can be designed from the ground up to be right.

ASK Energy Solutions, Apex House 3 Embassy Drive, Calthorpe Road, Birmingham, England, B15 1TR

My first application got bounced because they took the wifes PIP payments out of the qualify criteria - strangely that company (not the one above but also Birmingham based) contacted me today to say they have some good news - but I told them they were too late as it all got done within 14 days from first contact from a door to door canvasser working with a different company. 

We qualified as having me Emphysema and only basic pension coming in Plus some health issues the wife has with less than basic pension can now be considered under ECO4 rules... probably helped along by the current financial crisis.

[udderlyoffroad]

Thanks Dave - hadn't appreciated how much personal information you'd have to give in order to provide me with an answer, so appreciate that.

[udderlyoffroad]

Thought I'd better update this given there was some discussion on a thread that deviated into heat pumps, and the usual suspects regurgitated some Daily-Mail inspired nonsense about heat pumps 'not working'.

So, after quite a bit of faff, I now have Internal Wall insulation, PV Solar Panels, and a complete Central Heating/DHW system including a 12 kW heat pump. All entirely for free to me.  It is paid for by the ECO4 scheme (I urge you to google it), which in turn is funded by the Green Levy on all our energy bills.  To qualify you have to be in receipt of some form of benefit, live in a poorly insulated house, and not on the mains gas grid.  The downside of this scheme is, as has been alluded to, the companies are a painful bunch to deal with, and the disruption caused to your household by the work.

So, the internal wall insulation:  It's a product which is claimed to have the same u-value as 100 mm of celotex, and is a 50mm dense foam board, sandwiched between 2 bits of ally foil, glued to the back of standard 1/2" plasterboard.  This is mounted to your walls via either 25mm treated battens (which themselves have a DPM on the underside) or via metal stud system.  This is to create air gap and allow any moisture on the wall to not touch the insulation. 

So in total you lose about 75-90 mm from each wall.  Apparently some people have declined this service because it would chop too much space out of their room.  Nowt as queer as folk!

If you live in an old stone property with 'wavy' walls (as part of my house is), you will lose considerably more than 75mm as they build a metal stud system to make it level and plum.  

So far it seems to work well.  The majority of my house is twin brick construction without a cavity, and the rooms were much warmer when it was cold, and have also stayed relatively cool in the warmer weather.

Be aware that they will extend your socket/light wiring, so if your house is likely to need a rewire, get it done beforehand, and save yourself the expense or time of chasing cables in!  The subsequent plastering they did was of...variable quality but decorating hides many sins.  The decorating you have to do yourself, the plastering they do.

Also, keep in mind that this is applied to all exterior-facing walls. If you have a kitchen or a bathroom, or indeed any fitted furniture on said exterior wall, they will not work around it.  I elected to rip out my kitchen and bathroom as they were both in need of replacement.  You might not wist to be as drastic.

Finally, every room with a sink is retrofitted with a humidistat fan that is designed to be always on.  Personally I think this a good thing and I'm currently temporarily working in the room with one running.  The low hum is not disruptive.

I'll write about the PV and heat pump later.

[oowee]

Very interesting read. I had internal insulation added as part of the rebuild here. It has effected the sight lines from the square bay windows but other than that it's barely noticeable. Our house is mostly super insulated but I would like to go down the route of ground source heat, solar pv or even solar heat for the water system. We are likely to sell the house before I get chance to work out the options or install something. I am looking though at going for solar pv on our boat to do away with the gas cooking and petrol out board. 

Even better if you can get the costs met for you. Well done on taking the initiative. 

[Miserableolgit]

Very interesting but I'm not sure I could cope with the upheaval let alone redecorating everything in one go!

 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Thought I'd better update this given there was some discussion on a thread that deviated into heat pumps, and the usual suspects regurgitated some Daily-Mail inspired nonsense about heat pumps 'not working'.

So, after quite a bit of faff, I now have Internal Wall insulation, PV Solar Panels, and a complete Central Heating/DHW system including a 12 kW heat pump. All entirely for free to me.  It is paid for by the ECO4 scheme (I urge you to google it), which in turn is funded by the Green Levy on all our energy bills.  To qualify you have to be in receipt of some form of benefit, live in a poorly insulated house, and not on the mains gas grid.  The downside of this scheme is, as has been alluded to, the companies are a painful bunch to deal with, and the disruption caused to your household by the work.

So, the internal wall insulation:  It's a product which is claimed to have the same u-value as 100 mm of celotex, and is a 50mm dense foam board, sandwiched between 2 bits of ally foil, glued to the back of standard 1/2" plasterboard.  This is mounted to your walls via either 25mm treated battens (which themselves have a DPM on the underside) or via metal stud system.  This is to create air gap and allow any moisture on the wall to not touch the insulation. 

So in total you lose about 75-90 mm from each wall.  Apparently some people have declined this service because it would chop too much space out of their room.  Nowt as queer as folk!

If you live in an old stone property with 'wavy' walls (as part of my house is), you will lose considerably more than 75mm as they build a metal stud system to make it level and plum.  

So far it seems to work well.  The majority of my house is twin brick construction without a cavity, and the rooms were much warmer when it was cold, and have also stayed relatively cool in the warmer weather.

Be aware that they will extend your socket/light wiring, so if your house is likely to need a rewire, get it done beforehand, and save yourself the expense or time of chasing cables in!  The subsequent plastering they did was of...variable quality but decorating hides many sins.  The decorating you have to do yourself, the plastering they do.

Also, keep in mind that this is applied to all exterior-facing walls. If you have a kitchen or a bathroom, or indeed any fitted furniture on said exterior wall, they will not work around it.  I elected to rip out my kitchen and bathroom as they were both in need of replacement.  You might not wist to be as drastic.

Finally, every room with a sink is retrofitted with a humidistat fan that is designed to be always on.  Personally I think this a good thing and I'm currently temporarily working in the room with one running.  The low hum is not disruptive.

I'll write about the PV and heat pump later.

How do they insulate window and door reveals? 

[udderlyoffroad]

On 27/07/2023 at 16:57, Miserableolgit said:

Very interesting but I'm not sure I could cope with the upheaval let alone redecorating everything in one go!

It was the at-the-time 3mth old baby that made things challenging!  But yes it's a case of move all furniture to the middle of the room, cover with dust sheets (they supply their own if necessary) and send the family off to grandad's for the plastering phase.

On 27/07/2023 at 18:13, Scully said:

How do they insulate window and door reveals? 

If the door frame is too tight to the wall they have to 'taper' it in to prevent cold bridging.  Looks a little odd, but less noticeable once you decorate.  My house has all sorts of odd door/window reveals anyway so they hardly made things worse.  Where it's a more normal reveal, they use slimmer board and create a standard reveal, if that makes sense.  If you have more 'normal' reveals - i.e. a more modern house, then likely you have cavity walls, in which case internal wall insulation is unlikely to be recommended for you.

On 27/07/2023 at 15:29, oowee said:

Our house is mostly super insulated but I would like to go down the route of ground source heat, solar pv or even solar heat for the water system. We are likely to sell the house before I get chance to work out the options or install something.

Don't make the mistake of getting stuck in paralysis by analysis. Out of all that lot, my recommendation would be to get quotes for the largest PV system you can fit on your roof, as irrespective of what you do, that will reduce your exposure to the UK's energy market silliness.  You do have to look 'beyond the spreadsheet', as it were, but even then it doesn't take much what if analysis on payback period with energy prices likely to stay north of £0.50/kWh.