BASC January 2024 podcast - voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting

[Weihrauch17]

25 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I have to say my patience is wearing a bit thin now. Some people were interviewed on a BASC podcast and you have your own opinions that differ from those opinions. So be it. Perhaps I am being old school but in my experience it is normal to talk to people on the phone to discuss concerns and queries. It's certainly not to 'shut you up'. You don't want to discuss your concerns direct with BASC and prefer to type away on your keyboard on this forum? Fair enough, that's your choice. But take responsibility for your own decisions please and please don't lay your blame on my door.

I think most peoples patience wore thin with BASC when they proposed a Lead Ban.  It's like a classic car organisation proposing a ban on Petrol.  Totally bizarre and what is even more bizarre is 5 years on you now claim to oppose a Lead Ban.  Quite unbelievable and nothing a phone call can fix, damage done and delivered.

[Conor O'Gorman]

6 minutes ago, Konor said:

My patience wore thin long ago Conor your initial unfounded claims of belligerence ,your refusal to answer straight forward questions and your inability to clarify BASCs intentions I think has worn thin the patience of quite a few on this forum. A quick read through this thread should substantiate my claims. It’s ironic that you should be asking anyone to take responsibility for their own decisions when you have spent the whole of this thread avoiding taking responsibility for BASC’s decisions. The politics of BASC’s decision making is no excuse for your failure to address the issues directly neither is it justification for your dismissive arrogant attitude.

Yet you posted earlier "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum". The phone call is still available to you.

[ShootingEgg]

8 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks, I appreciate you mean well, but we are talking about a small group of people that refuse to engage offline and appear close minded to any information other than their own comments on this forum.

Yet I am offering a way of that group doing it as a group rather than individual, I appreciate your time on this forum is probably in spare time and sometimes the comments are pretty intense.

I don't know the answer to the issues but am offering ways to a Resolution this very back and forth topic.

[Conor O'Gorman]

1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

Yet I am offering a way of that group doing it as a group rather than individual, I appreciate your time on this forum is probably in spare time and sometimes the comments are pretty intense.

I don't know the answer to the issues but am offering ways to a Resolution this very back and forth topic.

I appreciate your efforts.

[Konor]

27 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Yet you posted earlier "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum". The phone call is still available to you.

And you obviously have no intention of addressing the issues I and others have raised on this thread.
I do however have no intention of not commenting on your posts here when I consider that they are being used as a deflection away from the issues you continue to ignore. What exactly is the point of your presence on the forum if you are not prepared to clarify BASC,s agenda. I would have expected that your remit would partially be to rally support behind BASC  and perhaps attract new members with your clarification of what BASC is doing for the average shooter but you are failing spectacularly in that respect. Furthermore your attitude that you are above questioning is frankly bizarre when you are in effect representing an organisation that members here are keen to question. The decision to recommend a ban on the use of lead shot only to later decide that they are now opposed to an enforced ban on lead shot and what exactly BASC are doing to oppose the proposed enforced ban other than say they disagree with it is only two of the issues you refuse to comment on. 

Edited January 17 by Konor
Deletion

[Conor O'Gorman]

12 minutes ago, Konor said:

And you obviously have no intention of addressing the issues I and others have raised on this thread.
I do however have no intention of not commenting on your posts here when I consider that they are being used as a deflection away from the issues you continue to ignore. What exactly is the point of your presence on the forum if you are not prepared to clarify BASC,s agenda. I would have expected that your remit would partially be to rally support behind BASC  and perhaps attract new members with your clarification of what BASC is doing for the average shooter but you are failing spectacularly in that respect. Furthermore your attitude that you are above questioning is frankly bizarre when you are in effect representing an organisation that members here are keen to question. The decision to recommend a ban on the use of lead shot only to later decide that they are now opposed to an enforced ban on lead shot and what exactly BASC are doing to oppose the proposed enforced ban other than say they disagree with it is only two of the issues you refuse to comment on. 

The issues are addressed in BASC's latest HSE consultation response and the answer to your other apparent dilemmas, personal dramas and unrealistic expectations are merely a phone call away.

[Konor]

37 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

but we are talking about a small group of people that refuse to engage offline and appear close minded to any information other than their own comments on this forum. 

Perhaps if you were to engage with the “small group of people “online which after all would be appropriate as the issues were raised online and maybe also accept that the same small group of people have probably read all the information available from BASC ,some such as myself being long time members of BASC perhaps since you were attending primary school then it would be possible to move forward rather than this circular argument which is achieving nothing other than demonstrating that some shooters are unhappy with the standard of representation that BASC is offering.

12 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The issues are addressed in BASC's latest HSE consultation response and the answer to your other apparent dilemmas, personal dramas and unrealistic expectations are merely a phone call away.

Could you perhaps list the personal dramas and unrealistic expectations for clarification or are we back in the realms of unsubstantiated rhetoric

[Conor O'Gorman]

6 minutes ago, Konor said:

Perhaps if you were to engage with the “small group of people “online which after all would be appropriate as the issues were raised online and maybe also accept that the same small group of people have probably read all the information available from BASC ,some such as myself being long time members of BASC perhaps since you were attending primary school then it would be possible to move forward rather than this circular argument which is achieving nothing other than demonstrating that some shooters are unhappy with the standard of representation that BASC is offering.

Could you perhaps list the personal dramas and unrealistic expectations for clarification or are we back in the realms of unsubstantiated rhetoric

I might repeat yet again your earlier post "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum". The phone call is still available to you.

[Konor]

16 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The issues are addressed in BASC's latest HSE consultation response 

Yet you are unable to to answer the from BASC’s latest HSE consultation response the answer to the specific questions I have raised

10 minutes ago, Konor said:

Could you perhaps list the personal dramas and unrealistic expectations for clarification or are we back in the realms of unsubstantiated rhetoric

Could you do me the courtesy and reply to my request regarding your at present unsubstantiated claims so that I may contest them 

[Conor O'Gorman]

22 minutes ago, Konor said:

Yet you are unable to to answer the from BASC’s latest HSE consultation response the answer to the specific questions I have raised

Could you do me the courtesy and reply to my request regarding your at present unsubstantiated claims so that I may contest them 

I might repeat yet again your earlier post "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum". The phone call is still available to you.

 

 

Edited January 17 by Conor O'Gorman

[scarecrow243]

Konor you are wasting your time its like talking to a brick wall  basc sent us all down the river with their volunteer lead ban over 5 years i left them years ago for not helping with my f.a.c. application but the gun trade association did even though i was not a member

[Old farrier]

45 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I might repeat yet again your earlier post "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum". The phone call is still available to you.

I’ll repeat my question and add some to it 

what do I bore my fixed choke gun out to to get it to pattern full with steel? 
question 2 

what do I bore my other gun out to to get it to pattern cylinder with steel ?

question 3 

where do I get non lead cartridges for my 4.10 ?2.1/2 inch chambers 

 

[Gordon R]

Conor O'Gorman - your posts have moved on from rather childlike onto totally bizarre.

You attack Konor, who has been incredibly patient with you. Your offer of phone calls is laughable. What exactly can you say on the phone which you are unable to post on here?

[Konor]

50 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I might repeat yet again your earlier post "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum". The phone call is still available to you.

 

 

So no substantiation of your claims.

As regards repeating oneself ad nauseum the only person guilty of that is yourself. I have made it crystal clear that I believe the correct medium for discussing issues raised on this forum is through the forum itself and not through the personal phone calls that you continue to request.

[Gordon R]

Conor O'Gorman - simple straight question.

What exactly can you say on the phone which you are unable to post on here?

I do not require another offer of a pointless phone call. i worry about people who think they can deflect questions by offering this option. I think it shows misplaced self confidence.

I do not need referring to previous posts which contain no answers at all.

 

[Konor]

Conor you seem to consider that you are the victim of a small group of disaffected shooters that you consider are by far in the minority ,belligerent BASC bashers as you have repeatedly called them. I would suggest that the reality is that the group are composed of those dissatisfied with the contradictory stance BASC has taken and a perception that BASC is doing little or nothing concrete to oppose the introduction of further legislation to restrict the use of lead ammunition amongst other issues.

 Your contention that we are a small disgruntled group unaware of the issues surrounding the lead shot debacle seems to have little credibility as evidenced by the lack of support for your posts shown on this thread.

[Conor O'Gorman]

21 hours ago, Old farrier said:

I’ll repeat my question and add some to it 

what do I bore my fixed choke gun out to to get it to pattern full with steel? 
question 2 

what do I bore my other gun out to to get it to pattern cylinder with steel ?

question 3 

where do I get non lead cartridges for my 4.10 ?2.1/2 inch chambers 

 

For your first two questions, perhaps speak to a gunsmith, but if you are a BASC member, email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I can see if someone can help with your specific queries.

For your third question there is, as you know, a lack of availability currently for non-lead options for smaller gauges/chambers and more time is needed for these options to become available and that is detailed in BASC's consultation response and recommendations therein.

For those with an interest in this please click the link below for an October 2023 list of non-lead options for shotguns (not exhaustive and there will be more options since then - innovation is happening at pace as explained in the podcast)

https://basc.org.uk/download/358749/?tmstv=1685980747

[Conor O'Gorman]

20 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Conor O'Gorman - simple straight question.

What exactly can you say on the phone which you are unable to post on here?

I do not require another offer of a pointless phone call. i worry about people who think they can deflect questions by offering this option. I think it shows misplaced self confidence.

I do not need referring to previous posts which contain no answers at all.

 

Despite your personal comments in recent weeks the phone call I offered to you in good faith remains open. 

[Konor]

22 hours ago, Konor said:

22 hours ago, Konor said:

Could you perhaps list the personal dramas and unrealistic expectations for clarification or are we back in the realms of unsubstantiated rhetoric

Could you do me the courtesy and reply to my request regarding your at present unsubstantiated claims so that I may contest them 

Just in case it’s slipped your mind Conor ,or perhaps baseless accusations is BASC’s way of dealing with being questioned on its policies.

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thanks to those PW members that completed the BASC survey that closed yesterday. I realise that some reported issues completing the survey, namely completing the ranking question. I have checked with colleagues running the survey and they will put a caveat in the results for that particular question on the issue arising from it.

As regards the OP the January 2024 episode of BASC's podcast is still available and well worth a listen for an interesting and informative update on the voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting and BASC's response to the latest HSE restriction proposals consultation. Click the link below to listen to the various interviews on this topic.

https://basc.org.uk/podcast/ 

Click the link below to read BASC's response to the HSE restriction proposals:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-hse-lead-ammunition-consultation/

 

 

[Old farrier]

35 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

For your first two questions, perhaps speak to a gunsmith, but if you are a BASC member, email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I can see if someone can help with your specific queries.

For your third question there is, as you know, a lack of availability currently for non-lead options for smaller gauges/chambers and more time is needed for these options to become available and that is detailed in BASC's consultation response and recommendations therein.

For those with an interest in this please click the link below for an October 2023 list of non-lead options for shotguns (not exhaustive and there will be more options since then - innovation is happening at pace as explained in the podcast)

https://basc.org.uk/download/358749/?tmstv=1685980747

That’s why I asked if there would be a gunsmith at the sustainable ammunition days 

surely this must be a frequently asked question at the many events you have held 

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 minutes ago, Konor said:

Just in case it’s slipped your mind Conor ,or perhaps baseless accusations is BASC’s way of dealing with being questioned on its policies.

The phone call that I continue to offer to you in good faith is still available to you despite all your personal comments - indeed I am available right now so perhaps stop typing and start talking? 

[Conor O'Gorman]

11 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

That’s why I asked if there would be a gunsmith at the sustainable ammunition days 

surely this must be a frequently asked question at the many events you have held 

 

There are BASC staff and cartridge reps and others at the events - I think it differs from event to event so maybe gunsmiths also at some of those. Keep an eye on the BASC events page for events near you and contact the regional team organising them with your query/request. Also perhaps come along to any BASC event or a general show/fair and pop into the BASC stand at that event and seek advice there.

[Konor]

6 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The phone call that I continue to offer to you in good faith is still available to you despite all your personal comments - indeed I am available right now so perhaps stop typing and start talking? 

I have made myself abundantly clear regarding personal phone calls on issues raised on a public forum.
As you are obviously keen to avoid clarifying what I consider to be baseless accusations I can only assume that you have no grounds for such accusations but are too embarrassed to withdraw them or apologise for fear of losing face. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 minutes ago, Konor said:

I have made myself abundantly clear regarding personal phone calls on issues raised on a public forum.
As you are obviously keen to avoid clarifying what I consider to be baseless accusations I can only assume that you have no grounds for such accusations but are too embarrassed to withdraw them or apologise for fear of losing face. 

Yet another opportunity lost then to discuss your concerns and queries. What a pity given your ongoing tirades on this forum which based on the feedback I have had are neither constructive nor helpful. It is also a pity that you are not a man of your word (assuming you are male from your username), having stated "I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum" and here we are again for maybe the fifth time with you breaking your word. Rather ungentlemanly behaviour if you ask me.