Will 410/28 steel loads exist?

[Gungoesbang]

So 12 bore steel loads have come on immensely and are now a formidable cartridge. 20 bore lacks the range of steel loads 12 has but I’m sure the development will follow for 20 given the popularity. However, will 410/28 gauges get steel loads for the market or will it be limited to home loads? 

[Weihrauch17]

If you are willing to pay a £1 per pop yes, if not no.  Good luck with getting home loading components.

Edited April 14 by Weihrauch17

[Old farrier]

There manufactured in 410 but cost and availability is a issue plastic wad though 

[Gungoesbang]

10 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

If you are willing to pay a £1 per pop yes, if not no.  Good luck with getting home loading components.

Do we think that if and when steel shot is required these will become a more readily available cartridge? Or is the demand simply not big enough to warrant them making them cheaply for mass market? 

[Weihrauch17]

1 hour ago, Gungoesbang said:

Do we think that if and when steel shot is required these will become a more readily available cartridge? Or is the demand simply not big enough to warrant them making them cheaply for mass market? 

Hard to say but right now from what I have read it is hard to buy the components needed.

[London Best]

3 hours ago, Gungoesbang said:

Do we think that if and when steel shot is required these will become a more readily available cartridge? Or is the demand simply not big enough to warrant them making them cheaply for mass market? 

Many years ago I remember the .410 being quoted as having 6% of the cartridge market. In those days it was fairly rare to see anyone using one. 
Today it has become much more popular and doesn’t raise any interest when  spotted in the field. Plus there are now two major .410 clay competitions in the U.K. But I have not seen any recent breakdown of it’s market share.

[Smudger687]

As already shown, steel .410 loads do exist, but there's a definite upper limit on how much you can expect to achieve with 118 pellets of number 6 (3/8 ounce). To put this into perspective, that's about the same number of pellets as a steel 22g 3 load, a cartridge which almost all of us would disregard for its low pellet count if it were a 12 bore.

 

[London Best]

But it’s not a 12 bore and the whole point is you cannot expect the same performance.

[Conor O'Gorman]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

Many years ago I remember the .410 being quoted as having 6% of the cartridge market. In those days it was fairly rare to see anyone using one. 
Today it has become much more popular and doesn’t raise any interest when  spotted in the field. Plus there are now two major .410 clay competitions in the U.K. But I have not seen any recent breakdown of it’s market share.

Here is a table with estimates from BASC's response to last year's HSE consultation

For full context here is the response document:

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/BASC-review-of-HSE-Annex-15-opinion.pdf

 

[London Best]

Thanks Conor.

[Smudger687]

8 minutes ago, London Best said:

But it’s not a 12 bore and the whole point is you cannot expect the same performance.

That was the point of my post? I.e. even a 22g 3 steel cartridge that none of us would even consider is still superior to that .410 load.

[London Best]

1 minute ago, Smudger687 said:

That was the point of my post? I.e. even a 22g 3 steel cartridge that none of us would even consider is still superior to that .410 load.

Yes, I was just backing your post.

[Gungoesbang]

1 hour ago, Smudger687 said:

As already shown, steel .410 loads do exist, but there's a definite upper limit on how much you can expect to achieve with 118 pellets of number 6 (3/8 ounce). To put this into perspective, that's about the same number of pellets as a steel 22g 3 load, a cartridge which almost all of us would disregard for its low pellet count if it were a 12 bore.

 

I wouldn’t mind a 22g 3 load in a twelve bore out to about 35 yards, as it’s likely to pattern well enough out to there. Granted, nobody would buy said load, but that’s because there is obviously way better loads available in 12 bore. A 410 with lead shot would also be equivalent to a seemingly **** load in a 12, but we still use them and love them. 

[Smudger687]

9 minutes ago, Gungoesbang said:

I wouldn’t mind a 22g 3 load in a twelve bore out to about 35 yards, as it’s likely to pattern well enough out to there. Granted, nobody would buy said load, but that’s because there is obviously way better loads available in 12 bore. A 410 with lead shot would also be equivalent to a seemingly **** load in a 12, but we still use them and love them. 

Of course, but that's when you have the luxury of using lead. Steel shot just accentuates the shortcomings of the smaller gun.

Steel/tss duplexes in the .410 may be good enough to keep the gun going. A few grams of tss 10's or 9.5's won't add a huge amount of cost to the cartridge, then small steel pellets can fill out the pattern. 

[dainty duck]

There's already a lot of wildfowlers out there using 410 and TSS shot and achieving 60yard + plus shots at geese !

just saying the 410 aint down and out yet 

[Old farrier]

42 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Of course, but that's when you have the luxury of using lead. Steel shot just accentuates the shortcomings of the smaller gun.

Steel/tss duplexes in the .410 may be good enough to keep the gun going. A few grams of tss 10's or 9.5's won't add a huge amount of cost to the cartridge, then small steel pellets can fill out the pattern. 

A good solution and working well however it’s with a tps wad so that’s the next thing to overcome 

I doubt that a mere 2.5 million cartridges would make it viable for the manufacturer to go down the biowads route would 45 tons of lead annually and nationally with a fibre wad make much difference would the fibre outweigh the plastic impact on the ground 

remember the HSE are only looking at lead not plastic wads it’s BASC that’s asking for both 

id go for lead and fibre over non lead and plastic wad but that’s just me 😊

[enfieldspares]

One important factor is that roll closure vs crimp closure. I was told long ago by David Bontoft that Hull buckshot was relatively more expensive as given the quantity loaded AND that it was a roll closure it was, he said, "virtually hand loaded". I fear that .410 steel may also be expensive as the quantity loaded will be limited so no scale of economy on setting up costs for the machinery for the production run.