Electric cars to pay road tax from April 2025

[Mungler]

10 hours ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

how don't EV's use fossil fuel?

are we on 100% renewables already?

absolute load of gonads 👍

Less fossil fuels used than you may think, https://gridwatch.co.uk

But that assumes ‘buy in’ to the whole net zero nonsense.

Ever since the government smashed into the road tax budget to spend on non-road stuff, it’s just become another tax in the big bucket of our money that the government spaffs up the wall.

If only people made a proper association between government expenditure (on anything) and what they pay in tax - directly and indirectly.

Another thing that hacks me off is when people speak of ‘our free health care under the NHS’; absolute nonsense, we’ve all paid for it through taxes, throughout our lives and it’s just that we don’t see that money leave our pockets because it doesn’t hit our bank accounts. We just go along with it and are so used to it, we think it acceptable and par for the course that the government should help itself to half the money we earn. 

The real problem is that the majority are now just too thick to question or challenge what is served up to them - they go along with it just because it’s always been like it.

[Old farrier]

Only problem with putting the pay by mile tax onto the fuel 

is the millions of lawnmowers chainsaws strummers ect that run on petrol 

how much duty is already collected 🤔

 

[Flashman]

The difficulty with all road schemes is the policing of them, starting with DVLA - or whatever it’s called now. 
The lack of policing means the chances of being stopped in an unregistered vehicle is pretty low in cities. I think of London, Bradford, etc. where cars aren’t registered, no road tax, MOT, insurance… Congestion charging isn’t paid, ULEZ is a joke, camera-monitored parking tickets are ignored because the registered address is wrong or the car is cloned.  All this is before one examine the Blue Badge scams. 
Pay-per-mile will become another tax on the law-abiding, with the bitterness that causes and the draconian fines process if an honest mistake is made and payment is late. 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Pay-per-mile will become another tax on the law-abiding, with the bitterness that causes and the draconian fines process if an honest mistake is made and payment is late.

Sadly, that is the case with very many taxes. 

There are elements of the community where living "no fixed abode" style in caravans, working for cash, claiming falsely, driving without tax, insurance and on red diesel etc., leaving without paying (both filling stations and food and drink establishments), shoplifting are all rife and in effect 'the norm'.  The 'authorities' are well aware it happens and who the perpetrators are- but do nothing.

[enfieldspares]

On 08/08/2024 at 09:05, BobbyH said:

 

I do believe that every vehicle using the roads should pay road tax.  But as said before, pay by mile, even if its only a small amount a year. Everyone uses the road, so why not charge them for the upkeep and repair of the roads? 

 

+1.

On 08/08/2024 at 09:37, JohnfromUK said:

Generalisations I know and not a universally popular view as many view the health service with an almost religious reverence - but it is a bloated and inefficient money pit.

+1

It is also time for the idea of the "Brit disc" to be resurrected. That foreign vehicles entering the UK pay a fee to us UK roads. There's a bloke in my village has a German plated RHD Mercedes and pays not a penny in VED tax despite the vehicle being here well over two years plus. Which the law says he should. It's just taking the Michael.

[.357shooter]

On 12/08/2024 at 09:02, markm said:

What an awesome contribution.   Did Barry down the pub tell you this?

So a car that weighs over a tonne more than mine and has over a 1/3 more torque does not cause more wear and tear to the road surface ?.yep I must be thick as **** to believe that . could also add all the fire damage to roads carparks when these environmental marvels explode.but that is just a lie too.

[markm]

8 hours ago, .357shooter said:

So a car that weighs over a tonne more than mine and has over a 1/3 more torque does not cause more wear and tear to the road surface ?.yep I must be thick as **** to believe that . could also add all the fire damage to roads carparks when these environmental marvels explode.but that is just a lie too.

2 (well 3) points for you to ponder.  I'm not wasting time analysing full stats or data. This is just a quick google. 
 

1. The surface treatment company Asphalt Group has debunked the rumour that electric vehicles are causing an increase in the number of potholes on the road.

 

(from me - potholes have always been formed due to the soft road surface in the uk combined with freeze thaw conditions)  add onto that government / council reduced spending on roads)

 

2. A study by the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency found that EVs are 20 times less likely to catch fire than ICE cars.

 

 

 

[enfieldspares]

21 minutes ago, markm said:

1. The surface treatment company Asphalt Group has debunked the rumour that electric vehicles are causing an increase in the number of potholes on the road.

Surprise surprise the Asphalt Group is lobbying, regardless of what causes the damage, for their process to be used arguing that electric vehicles are irrelevant so there is need for local authorities to adopt the Asphalt Group special process anyway.

Yet the Britpave company and its lobbying body the British Cemetitious Paving Association says that they do cause more damage that can only be addressed by using the Britpave concrete road system.

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/sustainability/ev-pothole-threat-prompts-call-for-concrete-roads-30-06-2023/

Researchers at the University of Leeds divided the models by size into small electric cars weighing over 1,000kg, such as the BMW Mini Cooper SE three-door and Peugeot e208, medium models over 1,500kg, such as the Ford Focus Electric and Vauxhall Corsa-e, and larger vehicles including the Jaguar I-pace EV and Audi e-tron 50 Quattro.

They found that the electric vehicles were on average 312kg heavier than similar petrol versions due to their heavier batteries, which weigh up to 500kg.

What cannot be argued by the Asphalt Group is physics. A heavier axle weight vehicle on the same tyres as a lighter axle vehicle will have a heavier ground pressure and it is a heavier ground pressure that causes more deterioration of a road.

But the fact remains that these electric vehicles use public roads and are presently not paying any VED that a combustion engine vehicle otherwise identical does. All the benefit none of the expense. That isn't right as it isn't a fair sharing of the charges and the costs paid by owners of similar vehicles.

Edited August 19 by enfieldspares

[markm]

2 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Surprise surprise the Asphalt Group is lobbying, regardless of what causes the damage, for their process to be used arguing that electric vehicles are irrelevant so there is need for local authorities to adopt the Asphalt Group special process anyway.

Yet the Britpave company and its lobbying body the British Cemetitious Paving Association says that they do cause more damage that can only be addressed by using the Britpave concrete road system.

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/sustainability/ev-pothole-threat-prompts-call-for-concrete-roads-30-06-2023/

Researchers at the University of Leeds divided the models by size into small electric cars weighing over 1,000kg, such as the BMW Mini Cooper SE three-door and Peugeot e208, medium models over 1,500kg, such as the Ford Focus Electric and Vauxhall Corsa-e, and larger vehicles including the Jaguar I-pace EV and Audi e-tron 50 Quattro.

They found that the electric vehicles were on average 312kg heavier than similar petrol versions due to their heavier batteries, which weigh up to 500kg.

What cannot be argued by the Asphalt Group is physics. A heavier axle weight vehicle on the same tyres as a lighter axle vehicle will have a heavier ground pressure and it is a heavier ground pressure that causes more deterioration of a road.

But the fact remains that these electric vehicles use public roads and are presently not paying any VED that a combustion engine vehicle otherwise identical does. All the benefit none of the expense. That isn't right as it isn't a fair sharing of the charges and the costs paid by owners of similar vehicles.

Come on then. How do pot holes form?  If remember correctly, that aren't a new phenomenon.  

Is a EV heavier?  Yes. 

So......

Has heavy road traffic increased in recent years?  EV and VANS?  Don't you get home deliveries?

 

How much does a VW golf GTI weigh now compared to a MK1?
 

 I know my beige Datsun Cherry was very light. 

Edited August 19 by markm

[Zoli 12 guage]

7 hours ago, markm said:

Come on then. How do pot holes form? 

erosion of the road surface,continued heating and cooling (more so in winter) breaking up the weakened surface,more erosion due to the already damaged surface,more heating and cooling ad infinitum.

a heavier applied erosion force equates to quicker and more damage,ergo,heavier vehicles (which EV's are) damage the surface more when compared to a conventional car of the same physical size.

HTH 😉

[mmamonster]

On 01/08/2024 at 12:05, Mungler said:

I think it does for 99% of the population if they are realistic about their car usage / journeys. Mention EV and the first thing people say is ‘you couldn’t drive to Scotland in it in one go’. True as that is, the underlying truth is that at 52 years of age I’ve never driven to Scotland yet and have no plans to.

I drove from East Cheshire to Edinburgh last winter in one go, without charging on the way, same on the way back a week later, Hyundia kona electric. 

I would of had to charge if I was going any further than Edinburgh. 

Atb

Mart

 

 

On 19/08/2024 at 23:44, markm said:

Come on then. How do pot holes form?  If remember correctly, that aren't a new phenomenon.  

Is a EV heavier?  Yes. 

So......

Has heavy road traffic increased in recent years?  EV and VANS?  Don't you get home deliveries?

 

How much does a VW golf GTI weigh now compared to a MK1?
 

 I know my beige Datsun Cherry was very light. 

I am not 100 percent sure but I think top gear did a comparison with a mk1 and a newer version gti and the latest one was twice the weight. It might be worth trying to google the episode. 

Atb

Mart