Raja Clavata Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 @Rewulf Do you think this commentary constitutes liberal hand wringing? Speaking of the Afghan community, he continued: "A lot of the kids here are coming from war zones and we have done nothing at all once they came here to help them find a way into society and to deal with the traumas that they've been through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 The Afghans are NOT the problem, they are perfectly respectful and keen to get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: @Rewulf Do you think this commentary constitutes liberal hand wringing? Speaking of the Afghan community, he continued: "A lot of the kids here are coming from war zones and we have done nothing at all once they came here to help them find a way into society and to deal with the traumas that they've been through. He was having a long chat. One of many interviews across a number of subjects he’s given. You can selectively extract whatever snippets you like from that chat in a desperate attempt to find ‘complex and cultural issues’ or a ‘holistic approach’ but we’ve all seen you skip over the bulk of his 2018 interview and the stuff at the top of this interview being: “Secondly, we have to be honest about who is dying and where. There are two young people dying every week in our city. ***Almost all of them are black. ***Almost all of them are being killed by other black youngsters.***” Speaking of the Afghan community - well that’s not likely to help the black on black knife crime epidemic very much. 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: The Afghans are NOT the problem, they are perfectly respectful and keen to get on. And they have very little to do with black on black knife crime… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 7 minutes ago, Mungler said: He was having a long chat. One of many interviews across a number of subjects he’s given. You can selectively extract whatever snippets you like from that chat in a desperate attempt to find ‘complex and cultural issues’ or a ‘holistic approach’ but we’ve all seen you skip over the bulk of his 2018 interview and the stuff at the top of this interview being: “Secondly, we have to be honest about who is dying and where. There are two young people dying every week in our city. ***Almost all of them are black. ***Almost all of them are being killed by other black youngsters.***” Speaking of the Afghan community - well that’s not likely to help the black on black knife crime epidemic very much. And they have very little to do with black on black knife crime… The question was directed at Rewulf. I’m far from desperate, I’m still laughing, at you. And I’m not the only one. Rather than throwing wild accusations and aspersions around, perhaps you could have the decency to answer some of the questions put to you in a reasonable manner. You’ve selectively quoted too, throughout the “debate” but usually to denigrate rather than debate. If you were half as smart as you claim to be you’d actually understand that our views on the subject are not that far apart. But of course, none of that aligns to your playbook. For the record, I like Sir Phillips, he usually speaks with a lot of sense and isn’t afraid to push boundaries and cause controversy. He has had some questionable associations but hey, haven’t we all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: @Rewulf Do you think this commentary constitutes liberal hand wringing? Speaking of the Afghan community, he continued: "A lot of the kids here are coming from war zones and we have done nothing at all once they came here to help them find a way into society and to deal with the traumas that they've been through. Not a lot of context there to make a judgment really, how old are 'the kids' ? Are they pre school, primary or secondary age, or late teens (adults) maybe they are 'unaccompanied minors' that are about 10 years older than they pretend ? Are they with family/friends ? How have they got here ? As part of an MOD relocation, or by illegal means, maybe even legal means ? You might say all thats irrelevant, but its all dependant on our level of responsibility as a country to 'help' them integrate, indeed they might not WANT or need help ? How much responsibility do we have as a country to integrate ANYONE coming from abroad, whether theyve faced trauma or not ? Also to say weve done 'nothing at all' sounds a little ungrateful, considering the taxpayer has likely been paying for their needs, and will continue to do so for some time The responsibility for integration surely lies with the individual primarily, and thats why its important to know what age group we are really talking about, and indeed, whether they chose to come here or not. There is certainly a bit of guilt tripping in the statement, like we havent done enough, but I dont think the language used constitutes liberal hand wringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B686 Posted September 5 Author Report Share Posted September 5 Don’t want to sound cold hearted but doesn’t this country have enough of its own uk born kids that are living in poverty and suffering and not being properly treated that need helping before helping others from abroad ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 18 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Not a lot of context there to make a judgment really, how old are 'the kids' ? Are they pre school, primary or secondary age, or late teens (adults) maybe they are 'unaccompanied minors' that are about 10 years older than they pretend ? Are they with family/friends ? How have they got here ? As part of an MOD relocation, or by illegal means, maybe even legal means ? You might say all thats irrelevant, but its all dependant on our level of responsibility as a country to 'help' them integrate, indeed they might not WANT or need help ? How much responsibility do we have as a country to integrate ANYONE coming from abroad, whether theyve faced trauma or not ? Also to say weve done 'nothing at all' sounds a little ungrateful, considering the taxpayer has likely been paying for their needs, and will continue to do so for some time The responsibility for integration surely lies with the individual primarily, and thats why its important to know what age group we are really talking about, and indeed, whether they chose to come here or not. There is certainly a bit of guilt tripping in the statement, like we havent done enough, but I dont think the language used constitutes liberal hand wringing. Fair points, I was trying to get an objective view on what constitutes liberal hand wringing👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 35 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: The question was directed at Rewulf. I’m far from desperate, I’m still laughing, at you. And I’m not the only one. Rather than throwing wild accusations and aspersions around, perhaps you could have the decency to answer some of the questions put to you in a reasonable manner. You’ve selectively quoted too, throughout the “debate” but usually to denigrate rather than debate. If you were half as smart as you claim to be you’d actually understand that our views on the subject are not that far apart. But of course, none of that aligns to your playbook. For the record, I like Sir Phillips, he usually speaks with a lot of sense and isn’t afraid to push boundaries and cause controversy. He has had some questionable associations but hey, haven’t we all. Sorry, not sure there was a point to respond to in that ramble. The point I was making is that if you wish to accuse someone of selective quoting it may be an idea not to then do it in your next 4 posts 😆 Just a passing thought. Incidentally, I don’t claim to be smart. Pragmatic and with both feet on the ground yes. Being right more often than not - well that’s a cross I have to bear 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 10 minutes ago, B686 said: Don’t want to sound cold hearted but doesn’t this country have enough of its own uk born kids that are living in poverty and suffering and not being properly treated that need helping before helping others from abroad ? That’s a fair point too, earlier in the thread I raised the topic of scum on scum killings, some time back but I remember commentators suggesting they just be left to allow “nature” to take its course. The issue then though is when it spills over to “decent” people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 Mungler - nicely put and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 2 hours ago, B686 said: Don’t want to sound cold hearted but doesn’t this country have enough of its own uk born kids that are living in poverty and suffering and not being properly treated that need helping before helping others from abroad ? This is my thoughts also, why are we allowing floods of illegal migrants, the reasons to stop it are many. A few from the top of my head. The risk to the migrants themselves (a boat sank killing many only the other day) The financial burden to the existing UK population Loss of British culture Increased strain on infrastructure and public services Terrorism and crime The cohesion of our society. But for the people already here, they are already here, many of them being entitled to call themselves British just as much as you and me and therefore a UK problem to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B686 Posted September 5 Author Report Share Posted September 5 9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: This is my thoughts also, why are we allowing floods of illegal migrants, the reasons to stop it are many. A few from the top of my head. The risk to the migrants themselves (a boat sank killing many only the other day) The financial burden to the existing UK population Loss of British culture Increased strain on infrastructure and public services Terrorism and crime The cohesion of our society. But for the people already here, they are already here, many of them being entitled to call themselves British just as much as you and me and therefore a UK problem to solve. But they are not British and a lot don’t want to be British just want to be here for an easy life , don’t respect our culture in fact despise our culture. Adults I’m talking about not children who are too young to be bothered about all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 35 minutes ago, B686 said: But they are not British and a lot don’t want to be British just want to be here for an easy life , don’t respect our culture in fact despise our culture. Adults I’m talking about not children who are too young to be bothered about all this. Let's be real, rightly or wrongly, anyone who has been here for several years isn't going to be deported. We need to concentrate on stopping further illegal immigrants coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B686 Posted September 5 Author Report Share Posted September 5 We certainly do. Can’t see it happening with Osama bin Starmer in charge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 5 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: The question was directed at Rewulf. I’m far from desperate, I’m still laughing, at you. And I’m not the only one. Rather than throwing wild accusations and aspersions around, perhaps you could have the decency to answer some of the questions put to you in a reasonable manner. You’ve selectively quoted too, throughout the “debate” but usually to denigrate rather than debate. If you were half as smart as you claim to be you’d actually understand that our views on the subject are not that far apart. But of course, none of that aligns to your playbook. For the record, I like Sir Phillips, he usually speaks with a lot of sense and isn’t afraid to push boundaries and cause controversy. He has had some questionable associations but hey, haven’t we all. Raja - nicely put and accurate 😁. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 (edited) On 05/09/2024 at 21:59, 12gauge82 said: Raja - nicely put and accurate 😁. And we have 2 for 2 out of the 2 murders at the Carnival. Someone owes me £40 to a charity of my choice (that’s £20 each for two correct predictions). Want to go double or quits on the next carnival? . Edited September 9 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 10 hours ago, Mungler said: And we have 2 for 2 out of the 2 murders at the Carnival. Someone owes me £40 to a charity of my choice (that’s £20 each for two correct predictions). Want to go double or quits on the next carnival? . I'm not sure anyone owes you anything, since the only bets you made were bets that no one took you up on. In fact like your imaginary bets, your entire argument on here seems to be a construct of your own mind. I hope you don't take this as a dig but after your incredibly early foresight around the covid issue, I'm quite surprised at your weak argument on this issue to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 24 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I'm not sure anyone owes you anything, since the only bets you made were bets that no one took you up on. In fact like your imaginary bets, your entire argument on here seems to be a construct of your own mind. I hope you don't take this as a dig but after your incredibly early foresight around the covid issue, I'm quite surprised at your weak argument on this issue to be honest. Nicely put and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: I'm not sure anyone owes you anything, since the only bets you made were bets that no one took you up on. In fact like your imaginary bets, your entire argument on here seems to be a construct of your own mind. I hope you don't take this as a dig but after your incredibly early foresight around the covid issue, I'm quite surprised at your weak argument on this issue to be honest. Brilliant attempt at deflection to cover being plain old wrong. To recap, I made a correct prediction being an entirely predictable prediction because it was based on all current evidence, statistics and what my own eyes told me. Hey, here’s an idea, we should feed all of that ‘bleedin obvious’ into how the police carry out stop and search perhaps? As I said, being right is the cross I carry. Double or quits on next years carnival to a knife charity of choice? I invite you to prove me wrong and put some money where your mouth is. You won’t of course because this time next year it’s still that predictable, you’ll be wrong again and it’ll be £80. 34 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Nicely put and accurate. But it’s neither, unless you count ‘incorrect’ as accurate. You two should get a room 😆 Besides, shouldn’t you be busy on the EU border control thread? 😆 All eyes in Germany right now… Edited September 10 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 56 minutes ago, Mungler said: But it’s neither, unless you count ‘incorrect’ as accurate. You two should get a room 😆 Besides, shouldn’t you be busy on the EU border control thread? 😆 All eyes in Germany right now… What so you can carry on making bets with yourself in peace? This whole thing is ridiculous, you found an interview from Trevor Phillips in 2018 which aligned with your rather obvious points. Sir Trevor has since gone on record citing the need to understand the root causes and address the issues comprehensively. You’re apparently either ignorant to these facts or choose to ignore them. It’s also rather telling that you presented Trevor as an OBE whilst he’s held the more prominent title of Sir since 2022. The OBE reference suggests a lack of familiarity or at least up to date knowledge of the status of the authority in the subject to whom you’ve aligned and referenced. I believe I’ve been transparent in this thread in taking issue with how you’ve made your points rather than the points themselves. You really do make me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: What so you can carry on making bets with yourself in peace? This whole thing is ridiculous, you found an interview from Trevor Phillips in 2018 which aligned with your rather obvious points. Sir Trevor has since gone on record citing the need to understand the root causes and address the issues comprehensively. You’re apparently either ignorant to these facts or choose to ignore them. It’s also rather telling that you presented Trevor as an OBE whilst he’s held the more prominent title of Sir since 2022. The OBE reference suggests a lack of familiarity or at least up to date knowledge of the status of the authority in the subject to whom you’ve aligned and referenced. I believe I’ve been transparent in this thread in taking issue with how you’ve made your points rather than the points themselves. You really do make me laugh. Your making yourself look silly now. The OBE reference was a straight cut and paste form then 2018 article, errr when he was an OBE. His being Knighted in the meantime doesn’t really affect what he said back in 2018 does it? He’s given lots of interviews since, but his primary position remains constant - your desperate search for complex and cultural to avoid the plain truth is blinkering you to the obvious. There we go. Back to the bet - you can’t beat being right eh? This whole thread is based on the plain and obvious truths now in front of us and which continue to be ignored in favour of hand wringers desperate search for complex and cultural. Edited September 10 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 Let’s just agree to disagree, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 4 hours ago, Mungler said: Brilliant attempt at deflection to cover being plain old wrong. To recap, I made a correct prediction being an entirely predictable prediction because it was based on all current evidence, statistics and what my own eyes told me. Hey, here’s an idea, we should feed all of that ‘bleedin obvious’ into how the police carry out stop and search perhaps? As I said, being right is the cross I carry. Double or quits on next years carnival to a knife charity of choice? I invite you to prove me wrong and put some money where your mouth is. You won’t of course because this time next year it’s still that predictable, you’ll be wrong again and it’ll be £80. But it’s neither, unless you count ‘incorrect’ as accurate. You two should get a room 😆 Besides, shouldn’t you be busy on the EU border control thread? 😆 All eyes in Germany right now… Again what your failing to grasp is the police don't march around like storm troopers carrying out searches based solely on statistics. Now you might like to see a police state where everything is put in a nice box, we could follow 'statistics' and not even bother with the searches and skip straight to jail, we could go even further with your police state and start putting people who fit certain criteria in concentration camps. Hitler was always right in his own mind to. 4 hours ago, Mungler said: You two should get a room 😆 Perhaps we will, after you, Rewulf and Gordon have finished with it 😂 3 hours ago, Mungler said: Your making yourself look silly now. 🤔 Pot, Kettle, Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Let’s just agree to disagree, eh? Nooooo ! Lets be culturally inclusive and embrace diversity. The correct way to settle this 'beef' is to meet up on a park, or the frontage of some tower block, and zombie knife fight this to the death 8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Again what your failing to grasp is the police don't march around like storm troopers carrying out searches based solely on statistics. No, they use more scientific and evidence based reasons, like -'I dont like the look of this one, he looks a wrong un, Im going to stop and search him, and make up a reason for doing so, might rough him up a bit if he complains too' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 10 Report Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: Again what your failing to grasp is the police don't march around like storm troopers carrying out searches based solely on statistics. Now you might like to see a police state where everything is put in a nice box, we could follow 'statistics' and not even bother with the searches and skip straight to jail, we could go even further with your police state and start putting people who fit certain criteria in concentration camps. Would it be a police state to target, stop this chap, ask him who he is and what's in the bag and then search him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts