.410 non toxic home loads

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

It's still miles better than any wad you could make yourself (I've tried), is available to homeloaders (unlike the useless UK manufacturers), and does what it says on the tin - good performance, no issues around barrel protection, legitimately biodegradable, and known shelf-life characteristics. 

Tell me anything else that even comes remotely close.

Joker have made biowads for every gauge. UK manufacturers only for 12 and 20. They deserve to make money on these wads, 20p each isn't the end of the world, and is a lot cheaper than bismuth!

This ^^^

any idea where I can preorder for when they arrive 

[Smudger687]

2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

This ^^^

any idea where I can preorder for when they arrive 

Not sure about pre-orders but it'll be announced on the Non-toxic loaders UK facebook page. 

[BobbyH]

11 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

It's still miles better than any wad you could make yourself (I've tried), is available to homeloaders (unlike the useless UK manufacturers), and does what it says on the tin - good performance, no issues around barrel protection, legitimately biodegradable, and known shelf-life characteristics. 

Tell me anything else that even comes remotely close.

Joker have made biowads for every gauge. UK manufacturers only for 12 and 20. They deserve to make money on these wads, 20p each isn't the end of the world, and is a lot cheaper than bismuth!

Yeah, I get that! 
Well presented!

[Windswept]

18 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Joker have made biowads for every gauge. UK manufacturers only for 12 and 20. They deserve to make money on these wads, 20p each isn't the end of the world, and is a lot cheaper than bismuth!

Do you know of any published load data, or if there will be any for .410 Joker wads?

[Smudger687]

1 minute ago, Windswept said:

Do you know of any published load data, or if there will be any for .410 Joker wads?

Currently people are running them with plaswad data - preliminary indications are that they run between 50-100 fps slower with the same payload and powder charge, and are likely running at a lower pressure too. 

I know of at least one person that will be sending loads in for testing, and clay and game have already been testing loads with these wads too. 

[Windswept]

40 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Currently people are running them with plaswad data - preliminary indications are that they run between 50-100 fps slower with the same payload and powder charge, and are likely running at a lower pressure too. 

I know of at least one person that will be sending loads in for testing, and clay and game have already been testing loads with these wads too. 

Thank you for the update. Looks promising and I look forward to seeing some results.

edit to add, I note Clay and Game now have the 12g Joker paper wads.

https://www.claygame.co.uk/100-12ga-jocker-paper-wad-37mm---9mm-inner-pd509

Edited Monday at 13:27 by Windswept

[Bernard]

3 hours ago, Old farrier said:

This ^^^

any idea where I can preorder for when they arrive 

Fenland reloading and clay and game are the main contenders that have orders in I believe.

[Old farrier]

37 minutes ago, Bernard said:

Fenland reloading and clay and game are the main contenders that have orders in I believe.

Many thanks for the information 😊👍

[6.5x55SE]

1 hour ago, Bernard said:

Fenland reloading and clay and game are the main contenders that have orders in I believe.

Hope people have more luck than me with Fenland Reloading they have not had the decency to reply to any of my numerous emails I've sent over the last month. Very bad business practice if you ask me.

[CumbrianWildfowler]

6 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

It's still miles better than any wad you could make yourself (I've tried), is available to homeloaders (unlike the useless UK manufacturers), and does what it says on the tin - good performance, no issues around barrel protection, legitimately biodegradable, and known shelf-life characteristics. 

Tell me anything else that even comes remotely close.

Joker have made biowads for every gauge. UK manufacturers only for 12 and 20. They deserve to make money on these wads, 20p each isn't the end of the world, and is a lot cheaper than bismuth!

Very true. It sounds from early testing like these are standing up to even TSS loads. If they work out its a big step forward for wildfowlers (and anyone else who uses non toxic). I hate having to use plastic wads. I can't wait to kiss them goodbye.

[rbrowning2]

18 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

It's still miles better than any wad you could make yourself (I've tried), is available to homeloaders (unlike the useless UK manufacturers), and does what it says on the tin - good performance, no issues around barrel protection, legitimately biodegradable, and known shelf-life characteristics. 

Tell me anything else that even comes remotely close.

Joker have made biowads for every gauge. UK manufacturers only for 12 and 20. They deserve to make money on these wads, 20p each isn't the end of the world, and is a lot cheaper than bismuth!

Not disputing that for some use they will be viable, however BobbyH said

This would then give me a fully non toxic .410 cartridge at roughly £72.87 per 250  for Bismuth shot

with 250 wads costing £50 he will not make 250 Bismuth cartridges for £72.87

Then I wonder how well the wads will stand up to the pressure in a .410 which is much higher than a 12 bore.

[Smudger687]

5 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Not disputing that for some use they will be viable, however BobbyH said

This would then give me a fully non toxic .410 cartridge at roughly £72.87 per 250  for Bismuth shot

with 250 wads costing £50 he will not make 250 Bismuth cartridges for £72.87

Then I wonder how well the wads will stand up to the pressure in a .410 which is much higher than a 12 bore.

He actually said that 250 bismuth carts would set him back 370 quid. See below

On 18/01/2025 at 17:47, BobbyH said:

The whole barrel a including the chamber are thick.

Question is, if I use cork or fibre wads, would I need to use overshot or nitro cards?

 

Because, I’m just going to load the correct amount of gunpowder I know works well (and has been tested), some cork wads, and around 13-14grams of steel shot. 
 

This would then give me a fully non toxic .410 cartridge at roughly £72.87 per 250 instead of £370 per 250 for Bismuth shot

 

[Smudger687]

20 hours ago, CumbrianWildfowler said:

Very true. It sounds from early testing like these are standing up to even TSS loads. If they work out its a big step forward for wildfowlers (and anyone else who uses non toxic). I hate having to use plastic wads. I can't wait to kiss them goodbye.

Agreed. I've been using clay and game's fibre cups, despite the performance limitations, just to avoid chucking plastic everywhere. These jokers are looking like game changers. 

[rbrowning2]

What sort of volume are you buying the wads in? as surly not very difficult to get cardboard tubes manufactured the U.K. which may be cheaper then importing from France.

Are we talking hundreds or thousands at a time?

 

[CumbrianWildfowler]

2 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

What sort of volume are you buying the wads in? as surly not very difficult to get cardboard tubes manufactured the U.K. which may be cheaper then importing from France.

Are we talking hundreds or thousands at a time?

 

You'd think there will be a commercial driver for UK manufacturers (with the lead ban coming too) to look closely at these wads and try and 'imitate' them. That can only be good for us and the wallet!

 

[rbrowning2]

29 minutes ago, CumbrianWildfowler said:

You'd think there will be a commercial driver for UK manufacturers (with the lead ban coming too) to look closely at these wads and try and 'imitate' them. That can only be good for us and the wallet!

 

Cannot see that happing, virtually all u.k. manufacturers have gone the way of environmentally friendly plastic wads as they can be injection moulded cheaply and quickly in large numbers and likely offer better ballistics. Gamebore had their paper cup wads at one time.

But granted cardboard is truly 100% biodegradable.

Full credit to Jocker for making the wads available to home loaders, none of the others look to have done so.