Diversifying a working farm a little?

[mr lee]

I have been chatting with our friends who run the farm earlier on this evening and they asked if I had any ideas on how to bring a bit more money in when they were quiet.

 

I mentioned the possibility of opening a section of the farm up a bit for outdoor groups such as scouts/duke of Edinburgh/school groups. What I had in mind was using a very scenic part of the farm which has little use by anything and making some form of camp area. This section is a lovely grassed flat area next to a shallow stream. Completely shielded from anyone else. Putting in a specific camp fire area using logs as seats in a circle, a few bench/pub type seats with tables for eating off and maybe even a low level ropes course. Going a step further, my wife does a lot with the DofE organisers and has supervised one group elsewhere building a bridge over a shallow river as part of their award. I suggested she could try the same. Have all the wood and bolts, guide lines etc all there and they erect it, use it and then disassemble it and stack it back up neatly when completed. Also a simple orienteering course could be set up around the farmland.

 

A wood pile also to one side for the fire. tents only. However, toilets would be an issue. Would they be allowed to dig a hole and place a temp timber loo over it which can be relocated at regular intervals without too much bother or effort?

 

Fresh water wouldn't be an issue as we could use a large water bowser on a trailer with a tap and just nip it back to the farm for filling as and when needed.

 

The camp site would literally be 100 yards from the nearest footpath. 10 minutes from the closest canal/river deep enough to allow canoeing. 10 minutes from the scenic and traditional village of Skipton in the Yorkshire Dales.

 

As I mentioned, Mrs Lee works with youths and other outdoor groups and said they generally pay around £200 a night for most outdoor places for a large group. They are definitely interested in a new venue for their groups. To go a step further, they could the send details of what they offer to all community groups/schools and other outdoor groups to boost their income.

 

Not really sure what I am asking you guys to say other than what are your general thoughts and has anyone else tried this and if so, what were the results?

 

Cheers guys.

 

To give you an idea of what is right on the doorstep, the farm is literally 10 minutes drive away from Skipton. This village hosts all manner of things to do/see.

 

http://www.skiptonweb.co.uk/tourist/

[mr lee]

Hope this is the correct part of the forum to post it. If not, can you move it along with a gentle nudge please mods?

[Suffolk shooter]

Sounds like a damn good idea, although I would say that the cost of Health and safety and insurance would not be cheap where kids are concerned.

 

More kids should be taken outside and given the opportunity to experience the countryside and to work as a team. Teaches respect, discipline and an huge amount of self achievement.

 

SS

 

PS: How did you get on with the Build Regs/Planner guy

[dustyfox]

Why dont you let ****** live their and make a deal with them you take 10% of the money they make on whatever they nick, about £5000 a month.

[Poacher]

Sounds like a top plan, and well thought out. But before you go ahead and do anything check with local schools etc and see what demand there is for it in your area, also the heath and safety aspect.

[taz24]

Check with the council.

 

Because of the health & safety issues and insurance reasons the majority

of outward bound centres are run by the council. You would be competeing

with other outward bound centres in the area.

 

All the best taz.

[mr lee]

Sounds like a damn good idea, although I would say that the cost of Health and safety and insurance would not be cheap where kids are concerned.

 

More kids should be taken outside and given the opportunity to experience the countryside and to work as a team. Teaches respect, discipline and an huge amount of self achievement.

 

SS

 

PS: How did you get on with the Build Regs/Planner guy

The council would 'prefer' natural materials to be used. As the farm and all the existing outbuildings are stone and timber they want them to keen things inkeeping with everything lese. Understandable but at the same time annoying as the building that had to come down was an old concrete and asbestos prefab unit.

 

Re: Is there a need for this sort of facility? I know the Mrs srtuggles to find new venues to take their groups. She is going to her boss this week to mention it to him and say what proposals are being made and get his take on it. Purely to see if it is worth taking the ideas any further or not.

 

RE: Insurance. this si something that the farmer would have to look into. I don't mind googling companies who supply said insurance but he can make the relevant calls.

 

Cheers guys.

[mr lee]

Why dont you let ****** live their and make a deal with them you take 10% of the money they make on whatever they nick, about £5000 a month.

*crosses dustyfox off the 'members to ask for business advice' list*

 

[dustyfox]

Another Idea more sensable this time. What about a legal rave loads of money in that what is it £30 to £60 each person for a weekend. if a 200 people go bobs your uncle.

[mr lee]

Another Idea more sensable this time. What about a legal rave loads of money in that what is it £30 to £60 each person for a weekend. if a 200 people go bobs your uncle.

Funny you say that DF, the farm not 10 miles away has one every year. Makes an absolute mint from it too!

[Cranfield]

It sounds like a good idea, but I am sure the "port-a-loo" chemical toilets would be more acceptable to the Council and your potential customers.

If on a regular contract these are not too expensive to hire.

 

Does your friend have any where to put in a fishing lake, that would certainly make money on a day ticket basis.

[highseas]

the 3 farmes i have worked on have all had farm shops fitted (with a littel convincing for me) and theor profets doubled in 2-3 years they ended up getting over 100 pound a lamb has you fellow thort about this route

[tuck1]

Certainly sounds feasable, although there is plenty of places in the locality to do the "bunk barn" type thing, I haven't heard of anything like this.

 

Couple of little things on the practical front.

 

I'm with Cranfield on the toilet issue. I'm all for "roughing it" where necessary, but ground gets contaminated easily and quickly, this would be a solution. Also, water bowsers are a nightmare. One little leak, accident etc, and you are looking at serious issues. If it's a farm there is no shortage of bacteria around, with potential for all sorts of nasty surprises. Mains water all the way...

 

Nice idea though, in a lovely part of the world (I am a little biased!) Definately worth looking into.

 

Tuck

[mr lee]

Some decent food for thought there guys.

 

As for fishing henry, the stream does have trout in it but as for making a small lake...unsure how far they are willing to go at the minute.

[Baldrick]

Mr Lee, is the farm arable, livestock or mixed?

 

None of my firm's farming clients in Essex have yet done anything like this, so I can't really offer any productive comment. Some things spring to mind though (most of which already mentioned above):

 

- You'll definitely need a full Health & Safety policy, and public liability insurance. You'll need to do a risk assessment of each activity. You mentioned canoeing, and climbing activites....

- You'll need at least one qualified first-aider

- Are the farm buildings Listed, re the Council's request for sympathetic repairs/renovation?

- Will the Planning fascists consent to change the buildings' use from agriculture to amenity/education?

- Can you not connect to the farm mains/private drainage system?

 

I would put some real thought into anti-vandal measures. As you we all know, farms are a magnet to ******, and with a footpath so nearby, you are bound to get people sniffing about. Everything will either need to be bolted down, or housed overnight.

 

The farm I live on plays host to the local CCF each month, where lots of kids try to hone their amusing section attacks, questionable navigation skills and hilarious fieldcraft. The local CCF units may be interested in any 'outward bound' opportunities. If you were to erect an obstacle course, you could try to earn some custom from local rugby clubs, CCF units and other such types.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Baldrick

[scout]

Hi mate

 

I've been a scout leader for 20 years and we regularly use farm site for just such activities. We usually pay about £3 per person per night. There are restrictions about what is required from the land owner with regard to live stock etc. Also if it was to become a regular camping site I am sure the local authority would have some thoughts. You can get some ideas about what the Scout Association requires by looking on www.scoutbase.org.uk , from memory search under nights away permits.

 

Hope this helps

 

Damean

[Disco Stu]

Fishing either in lakes ( expensive to create and stock) or perhaps explore the stream with trout in You could look at having some kinds of shooting activity over part of the land or a farm shop perhaps. One of the places I fish at has a couple of well stocked coarse lakes, caravans and camping plus a small farm shop and they seem to be doing well. In the summer 20 - 50 anglers per day paying £6 each

[mr lee]

Mr Lee, is the farm arable, livestock or mixed?

 

None of my firm's farming clients in Essex have yet done anything like this, so I can't really offer any productive comment. Some things spring to mind though (most of which already mentioned above):

 

- You'll definitely need a full Health & Safety policy, and public liability insurance. You'll need to do a risk assessment of each activity. You mentioned canoeing, and climbing activites....

- You'll need at least one qualified first-aider

- Are the farm buildings Listed, re the Council's request for sympathetic repairs/renovation?

- Will the Planning fascists consent to change the buildings' use from agriculture to amenity/education?

- Can you not connect to the farm mains/private drainage system?

 

I would put some real thought into anti-vandal measures. As you we all know, farms are a magnet to ******, and with a footpath so nearby, you are bound to get people sniffing about. Everything will either need to be bolted down, or housed overnight.

 

The farm I live on plays host to the local CCF each month, where lots of kids try to hone their amusing section attacks, questionable navigation skills and hilarious fieldcraft. The local CCF units may be interested in any 'outward bound' opportunities. If you were to erect an obstacle course, you could try to earn some custom from local rugby clubs, CCF units and other such types.

The farm is purely Livestock.

 

None of the farms buildings would be used by anyone other than the farmer.

 

The proposed site would be almost 1/2 mile away down the fields from the actual farm buildings. All canoeing activities are nothing to do with us at all but organised and done locally by the individual groups themselves.

 

Fully agree on the risk assessments side though. I'm self employed and anything I do on site has to be checked and paperwork submitted. ALL the groups that my Mrs works with provide their own first aid workers. All the staff generally have to undertake a red cross/st. johns course anyway so hopefully one obstacle overcome.

 

Connecting to the farms electric supply could be done but it would be quite a mammoth job given the distance from the property. :blink: However, over 400 yards of drainage trenches have been dug recently for the installation of proper drainage pipes to go in so maybe a reinforced cable could be laid down the same trench?

 

I would be surprised if the place would suffer from vandalism by local kids as the place really is in the middle of nowhere with regards to local villages and walking distance etc, however, I wouldn't want to put money on mobile thieves parking up on one of the lanes (about a mile away) and walking across a few fields to grab stuff.

 

My missus has spoken to their outward bounds instructor and quizzed him on what regulations etc would need to be in place prior to someone using it and he is really interested in helping out if it all goes ahead. It would be ideal if i could be kept as simple and minimal as possible too to cut down on red tape. The main worry is the toilets. One possible solution would be small chemical loo's in a toilet tent or similar if portaloo's were too expensive. Farmer would have to check them morning, afternoon and evening though.

 

I'm up there Friday/sat and sunday helping out with the lambing so if I think of when loading the van up I will throw the camera in and get a few shots of the area to give people a better idea.

 

Seriously appreciate all the ideas and comments too guys so please do keep posting comments on anything which springs to mind.

[mr lee]

Hi mate

 

I've been a scout leader for 20 years and we regularly use farm site for just such activities. We usually pay about £3 per person per night. There are restrictions about what is required from the land owner with regard to live stock etc. Also if it was to become a regular camping site I am sure the local authority would have some thoughts. You can get some ideas about what the Scout Association requires by looking on www.scoutbase.org.uk , from memory search under nights away permits.

 

Hope this helps

 

Damean

That link is a cracking one Scout! :blink: gives a good idea of what sort of requirements scouts are looking for and what they aren't. Cheers mate.

 

 

Fishing either in lakes ( expensive to create and stock) or perhaps explore the stream with trout in You could look at having some kinds of shooting activity over part of the land or a farm shop perhaps. One of the places I fish at has a couple of well stocked coarse lakes, caravans and camping plus a small farm shop and they seem to be doing well. In the summer 20 - 50 anglers per day paying £6 each

The fishing and shooting line is something worth looking into (however, I won't push the shooting part too much, don't want to lose out myself now.. )

 

As for creating a lake, I think that might just be out of thier reach currently.

[dustyfox]

What about paintballing expensive to set up but gets the money coming in when things are quiet.

[mr lee]

What about paintballing expensive to set up but gets the money coming in when things are quiet.

Hmmm....Last time I went paintballing the venue only really had a few woods and natural terrain. No major outlay building 'fortresses' etc. Just a few ground dens and downed logs.

 

Nice one DF. certainly worth looking on flea bay for a few prices to get set up. :blink:

[Baldrick]

Mr Lee, re the fishing suggestion, I'm currently trying to let two lakes owned by a client to a prospective fishing tenant. Rents for immature stock ponds aren't great (£400/acre max, in Essex). The rent achieved doubles (and more) when the pond matures and can be fished commercially, but you obviously need a pond in the first instance....

 

Digging a pond or lake large enough to guarantee a good rental return would be a mammoth task, both in terms of man hours and costs. However a pond only needs about 4' of water as a minimum to be of interest to a fishing tenant. And the tenant would have to pay for fencing costs, laying a parking area and installing all the necessary foliage and jetties.

 

You will get ******** by EDF Energy if you ask them to lay the electrical supply cables. You would just call a farm electrician and find someone with a small 360, and dig in the cable without the intervention of EDF. Laying the cable in a ditch is dody - what'll you do when the ditch needs routine clearance, and the 360 driver cuts through the cable?

 

The most obvious option on a sheep unit is to open a farm shop, as mentioned previously.

[sandersj89]

Explore a small caravan club site, this is one of the first diversifications we did on our farm many years ago and it ideally suited to a quite out of the way farm with livestock.

 

The beauty of a 5 van Caravan Club of Great Britain site is that you do not need planning so that takes away one head ache.

 

If they can set it up so there is electrical hook ups so much the better. We have been running for many years now and are full for over 6 months of the year and it is rare for not to have 1 or 2 vans in on site everyday of the year.

 

You can see the site here:

 

www.crablakefarm.co.uk

 

We don’t advertise other than on that website and the CC Handbook so overheads are minimal.

 

Farm shops can be good though planning can be tricky, if you are out of the way then it will also limit custom until you build a reputation.

 

Ponds/lakes, very expensive to build and can be expensive to run. Lots of red tape to get through as well with the environment agency.

 

Outward Bound activities, again this is something we have done in the past with local youth organisation, not done it recently as there were some insurance concerns.

 

School trips, we do run these from time to time with local primary schools for a minimal fee. Again ideal for a livestock operation. Does not make much money but a worthwhile activity for other reasons.

 

How about a sporting clay set up, again if it is just for a limited number of days there should not be a planning issue, I am exploring this a little at the moment.

 

Something else I am looking at is horse livery, a simple American stabling set up and you can pick up £1,500 a year for a horse and the owner does everything so you sit back and take the money, so much better if you can offer all year riding on tracks on the farm. Hay sales would be on top of the basic rent so an option for a bit more income.

 

It could be worth having a chat with the Farm Development people at the Country Landowners Association.

 

HTH

 

Jerry

[mr lee]

Cheers guys.

 

RE; caravan site, no chance. Not unless some serious land grading went in and a solid driveway to said area. Work is due to be done laying some more base down this year but only good enough for a motor, not really ideal for a caravan to go down.

[Dave-G]

Consider dropping into your local RC model shop to see if there are any local RC flying sites. If not, and the area you refer to is truly remote... with few trees around one of the fields or local residents to complain about noise, and has reasonably close cropped grass you could well be sorted. As long as livestock could be cleared away from the area being used there would be little need for any other input apart from ensuring there is an area of short grass. Different fields could be used as required throughout the season.

 

It does'nt neccessarily have to have large flat area's for landing but that would be a distinct advantage. RC helicopters do it almost anywhere.

 

http://www.northeasternbmfa.co.uk/4559.html

 

EDIT: It should be noted that the club and the members would be insured through the BMFA

Edited March 27, 2008 by Dave-G