happybonzo Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 (edited) I have looked thru the "search" feature and I have been trying to find out why I shouldn't go for a .22wmr. I have been shooting with one for the last few days and have found it to be accurate at 100yds. There was a reasonable cross wind blowing and the gun seemed to group very well. I also tried a CZ .22LR at the same time and was extremely impressed with that as well. I also tried a .243 and 7.62 at the same time What are the arguments against getting a .22magnum? It will be used for fox and rabbits - Not wishing to upset anyone but I do not want a .17 Edited May 18, 2008 by happybonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 Two different animals, two different rifles IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harv Posted May 18, 2008 Report Share Posted May 18, 2008 What are the arguments against getting a .22magnum? It will be used for fox and rabbits - Not wishing to upset anyone but I do not want a .17 i'd get a .17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steyrman Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Me three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 I'd go for the 7.62 perfect rabbits won't know what hit them :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 If your range is 100yd or less and the rifle you are using gives the accuracy you require for that range, then you're better having the 22mag over the HMR or 22LR. First off, between the 22mag and 22LR, the mag has higher velocity for the same bullet weights, and you have different bullet styles available (v-max for instance) that you don't in the LR. So if you need to push the range beyond what you can do with a LR, then the mag wins the day handily. Also if you want to shoot fox then most forces won't approve a 22LR for fox. The argument for the 17 HMR over the 22 Mag is that the extra speed gives better trajectory and the HMR is more accurate (generally speaking). The extra speed and trajectory advantage really only come into effect when you get beyond 100 yd AND you have an unknown range. If your shots are limited to 100 yd, you can sight in a 22 mag to be +/- .5" out to 100 yd which is more than flat enough for anything bigger than a rabbits head. In terms of energy the 22 mag with the 40 gr head has a 20% increase at 100 yd over the HMR and since the energy is derrived from weight moreso than velocity (as compared to the HMR) you get more penetration on top. That means it is an agreed viable fox killer to 100 yd. The HMR is considered borderline (whether true or not is another matter) and forces normally only allow it as an incidental fox cartridge. The 22 mag is a great cartridge if you have a 100-125 yard range maximum or want the ability to take larger vermin. The HMR is a great cartridge for what it was designed for- small mammals and birds that require minimal killing power. The HMR has a benefit when you are shooting longer ranges and need a touch more acuracy. I have an HMR because I'm only shooting rabbits and birds out to 150 yards. At that range the 22 mag drops 8+" while the HMR is still in the +/- 1" sighting. If you stay within the accuracy range of your rifle though, the 22 mag is a better killing machine. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookie Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 You might also want to consider the cost of ammunition... I could well be wrong on this, but .22WMR is not that popular a round and it may be that the ammuinition turns out to be more expenive than .17HMR. Horses for courses though. .22WMR is a popular round in the US for "general varminting" and a mate of mine has one for his gamekeeping. Sounds a superb round, but I've got .22LR and .17HMR and am quite happy with both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 .22wmr is an odd round. Tends to be very temperamental. I would avoid, its not got alot going for it, its supersonic, its not that cheap for a rimfire, and its still not able to take foxes much past 100 yards. My recomendation is what anyone sensible would get .22lr .222/.223/.22-250 The .22lr IS the ultimate rabbiting gun, the HMR will never have that honour. It is cheap to run, common as muck to buy, and quiet. It is rubbish on foxes, but then truthfully the HMR cant be used out to any sensible ranges on foxes either. I know many people who have sold their HMR as they dont have a need for it. A proper centerfire is what you need for foxes, and depending on your area all of the centerfires i have listed will be cleared for vermin as well. So your .22 centerfire can act a crow tool, long range rabbit tool if you desire, fox, and even deer if your willing to travel. HMR is a baby centerfire, do your time with the .22lr like most then after 1 year apply and get a proper rifle for foxes. That year will fly by and the .22lr is an excellent round to learn field craft with. I now expect the pro HMR gang to come and bully me into submission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 nick, No bullying. Though I'd like to correct one thing. The HMR isn't a baby centerfire, especially considering that it isn't centerfire at all. It is magnum rimfire. If you want a rimfire that shoots beyond 100 easily, you have one choice. Like I said above, for what it was designed for, the HMR is an awesome round. It isn't designed as a foxing round, though it works for fox under some conditions. It is designed for small prey (varminting and small game) where a tiny bullet is adequate. Over here on this side of the pond, I think my applications are about perfect for it as I'm in big open fields where you can't get into 22LR range very often. My average shot is over 100 yd but I'm only using it for small ground based animals. A 22LR wouldn't work nearly as well (it cost me 3 last time out that the HMR would have killed), a 22 mag would have been better, but still limiting on the outer edge of my range. A 22 hornet would also work, but it costs more to shoot if you don't reload and it is a bit louder. Any of the bigger centerfires are too much to use regularly. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) dont get me wrong i wasnt suggesting for a second it was a centerfire, just that what most people buy it as its a little centerfire. In that they want it to do rabbits/crows and foxes at longer ranges than a .22 Whilst i know what you mean regarding that inbetween area of 100yrds + shots but not wanting to shoot a CF, it probably is the most suitable round. However the circumstances around here (kent is also this side of the pond) means more often than not discretion is required for a large % of my permissions. While i admit the HMR dosent exactly make your ears bleed, its not in the same league as the .22lr for not disturbing people. Personally for these 100yrd plus shots i either sit out for them closer. Or i will use the .223 if i can get away with it in the surroundings. My .223 is not that much more to reload than my old mans hornet i might add. That little round can be a bit of a pain to get hold of things. Dies, good Brass, light B/T's and the particular powder it likes. I will stick with the .22lr and .223, mind you if i do change my mind there are pleanty of nice cheap second hand HMR's about Edited May 19, 2008 by dunganick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 dont get me wrong i wasnt suggesting for a second it was a centerfire, just that what most people buy it as its a little centerfire. In that they want it to do rabbits/crows and foxes at longer ranges than a .22 Whilst i know what you mean regarding that inbetween area of 100yrds + shots but not wanting to shoot a CF, it probably is the most suitable round. However the circumstances around here (kent is also this side of the pond) means more often than not discretion is required for a large % of my permissions. While i admit the HMR dosent exactly make your ears bleed, its not in the same league as the .22lr for not disturbing people. Personally for these 100yrd plus shots i either sit out for them closer. Or i will use the .223 if i can get away with it in the surroundings. My .223 is not that much more to reload than my old mans hornet i might add. That little round can be a bit of a pain to get hold of things. Dies, good Brass, light B/T's and the particular powder it likes. I will stick with the .22lr and .223, mind you if i do change my mind there are pleanty of nice cheap second hand HMR's about Yep, 22lr and 223, covers all bases in the varmint stakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happybonzo Posted May 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Thanks for your replies casts by fly and dunganick. Your comments seem to be much in line with what I have been told. I'd go for the 7.62 perfect rabbits won't know what hit them - nor do crows for that matter - Winchester 17 match rifle at 400m. And yes, we have Deer and Boar as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Just to throw a spanner in the works......Rumours have it that CZ are going to chamber their 452 American in an old caliber that didn't catch on in the seventies...its the 5mm Rem Mag, Interesting read in the link below comparing the HMR 17, 5mm Rem Mag, & the 22 Mag....if this caliber catches on, I think it'll either make or brake the HMR 17....see what happens, HMR17, 5mmRem Mag, 22 Mag. BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) If HMR bullets get hard to come by I'll chuck mine in and use the .223! The HMR is great for beginners though IMO. It gives great range and trajectory in a rifle that's a lot easier to talk the FEO into letting you have. I'm glad I bought one as my first rifle. I agree with Nick, the HMR is like a mini centrefire. It shoots fast and flat, with a great little ballistic tipped bullet that is very explosive. For rabbits it's amazing, and has nowhere near the muzzle blast of a true centrefire. For fox it will be too small for longer shots, but if you're close enough it will put them on the floor as fast as any other gun. EDITED... because I've just noticed I've not really been of any help to the topic at all! On the .22wmr debate I wouldn't bother. Get a .22 hornet and load it with a start load of not ideal powder. That should get it down near WMR levels of power, but will give you potential to get more out of it if needed Edited May 19, 2008 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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