Section 1 shotgun

[njc110381]

I've just heard back from my FEO regarding the use of a section 1 shotgun for crows. It seems that my reason for wanting one is reasonable and I may have one. However, they say I need five written permissions to have it on open conditions! Seeing as my .22lr and .17hmr are open I really can't see why. What is the difference between a SGC semi auto and a FAC semi auto regarding safe shots and land suitability? I have said this in my reply, so I await the answer!

 

Big problem though. I've used the FAC pump action at the PSG club. I've said as much in my email to the FEO and his reaction was worrying to say the least. I (and the club) have supposedly broken the law by me using the gun! I understand that an FAC gun couldn't be used under supervision at a clay club because the club wouldn't be certificated to allow it, however this is a rifle and PSG club. I have full membership of the club which includes a police check when I joined. This means I can sign for any gun in the armoury from .22lr to .308 and pistol calibre rifles. It also includes the said shotgun. I can then take them for use on club grounds and then return them before leaving.

 

Whether or not they thought I'd used it at a clay club I don't know, but I've sent full details of the club to the FEO for him to look into. Do any of you shoot in the same situation and borrow a section 1 shotgun (maybe better if you say "my mate does")?

 

I'm quite worried about this, as ignorance is no excuse is it

[harv]

I think the point needs clearing with the feo that it had not been used on clays but for practical shotgun/ it will be on the clubs cert for that discipline only i

suspect.

do this sooner rather than later before he starts pestering the club sec and your name is mentioned

[Mungler]

Could you not claim that your were "zeroing on suitable land / a club range".

 

Grey area this - I would like to know the answer myself.

[CharlieT]

njc

 

With regard to the written permission on 5 farms I rather think your feo is trying to put the brakes on your application via the back door. The HO guidelines state that S1 shotguns will be authorised for serious pest problems and I know that some licensing managers will only authorise them for gamekeepers and pest controllers. Similarly I know that sometimes restrictions are placed on the fac as to the magazine size. Seems to me that they are just putting hoops in your way hoping you don't proceed with your application.

 

I have read somewhere ,that if a grant is made for a S1 shotgun, territorial conditions should not apply but for the life of me I can't remember where I read it. If I can find it I will let you know.

 

Again with his reaction to your club gun use I fancy he is again trying it on.

 

I presume you are a member of BASC, why don't you give them a call and talk it through. They profess to be the experts on such matters.

[njc110381]

I may fall back on the BASC if I need to, but at the moment I'm happy with how things are going. I've questioned the FEO on the closed ticket thing, saying that a 12g is a 12g, single shot or ten shot it only takes one bad one to get yourself in trouble so the FAC or SGC rated gun is the same in that way. I think they are under the impression that the club is a clay club, so I sent them a link to the very detailed website for them to look for themselves. If the police are getting confused there's no problem as they can see for themselves what the club is about. If the club is wrong then I'm not bothered what their opinion of me is, as they've let me do something illegal and I'm not too happy about that!

 

Hopefully I should get it all sorted by reasoning, as I have to say my firearms department seems ok most of the time. They like to make a fuss about things at first but once they know I'm only asking for something I need they are actually fairly helpful. I've told them that I only have two permissions at the moment that can justify needing the gun, but that one off shoots on other grounds are fairly frequent so I'd like it to be ok to use it then too. They said the same about my rimfires, 5 permissions needed. I gave them two and a long letter stating the above and got it open anyway!

[Rascal]

It maybe because typically FAC's for Home Office approved clubs only cover small-bore, full-bore rifles and muzzle loaded pistols. They normally do not cover LBR or Sec 1 Shotguns.

[njc110381]

How have the club got a section 1 shotgun if their certificate doesn't cover it?

[trollhunter]

hi all

this is what is written on my ticket relating to a 5 shot semi-auto i hav

 

(10) the smooth-bore gun(s) to which this certificate relates, shall be used only for the destuction of vermin on land over which the holder has permission to shoot for that purpose with that class of firearm, the smooth-bore gun(s) may also be used for clay pigeon shooting

all i needed was to hav permission for vermin controll and i was already on an open ticket , the flo added clay pigeon just incase i needed to practice

i think CharlieT is spot on and you need to clarify, as there is less regulations on multi shot shotguns like there are on a rifle, as a 3 shot, multi-shot shotgun is the same as a five just more expensive to run and a bit more fun

[mossy835]

when i was thinking of a fac shotgun,the flo said i need one letter from a farmer and that was it.

[steve_b_wales]

I had one letter off a farmer who stated that he had 'big problems' with crows/pigeons. My certificate states that I can only use the section 1 shotgun for crop protection. If I were to shoot a fox, rabbit or anything else other than the crows etc, I would be breaking the law.

Edited May 23, 2008 by steve_b_wales

[njc110381]

Well I've kind of got to the bottom of this. Hopefully my force will be reasonable. The gun was used in the West Mercia area, which in their view is OK. My FAC is issued by Gloucestershire, who say it's not OK. I have informed my FEO of this so we'll just have to see where he wants to go from here. As usual the "Guidelines" are about as much use as a chocolate teapot so I'm left chasing my tail (pretty much what I said to the FEO).

 

I've said I will refrain from using the gun if this is how they want it, but can't fix the fact I already have. There's nothing more I can do.

[bob300w]

If I understand you correctly, you have used a club owned gun, on club property, with the club's consent?

If this is the case, if any offence has been committed, it is by the club, not you. Imagine that the club had no FAC and you had shot there, that would not be down to you. It is not reasonable to expect a guest to demand to see the club's documentation, any more than demanding to see your local pub's license to serve alchohol before having a pint.

 

Regarding your other question, the Home office Guidance is quite clear;

 

Chapter 13:18; Large magazine shot guns may be required to deal

with serious pest problems with wood pigeon or corvids (rooks and crows).

 

A letter from your farmer should cover this with no problem.

[njc110381]

The gun actually belongs to the armourer not the club. I was wrong on that part! He has been authorised to hand it out to club members under supervision. I didn't know that either, I just thought he liked to shoot PSG too! I'm confused, but that's nothing new

[CharlieT]

njc

 

Don't worry mate.

 

We will all still be here........... waiting to welcome you back after you have served your mandatory 5 year sentence for illegal possession of a firearm.

[fallowbuck]

I had one letter off a farmer who stated that he had 'big problems' with crows/pigeons. My certificate states that I can onny use the section 1 shotgun for crop protection. If I were to shoot a fox, rabbit or anything else other than the crows etc, I would be breaking the law.

Just contact your local firearms office and say you want to change the wording to pest/vermin control. I also have my semi-auto condition for clay pigeon shooting. It will cost you nothing.