2008 Badger Cull Petition

[MC]

Ok I found the following website and it is evenly balance. For and against badgers infecting cattle.

 

http://www.badgers.org.uk/badgerpages/eura...-badger-26.html

 

Specially look at the last paragraphs of each arguments.

 

All I am saying is cull the badgers in areas where there is a high proportion of cattle getting BTB. If it doesnt fall the cull stops.

 

Df

 

Edit: I didnt read the top bit, it said 80% of Tb comes from other cattle while the other 20% comes from Badgers

 

 

There you go then, easy answer. Cull 80% of cattle and 20% of the badgers. No more Bovine TB. No more problems.

 

I am quite sure that none of it is passed by mosquitos or dirty farm equipment. Or any of the other million different reasons. Lets all go out and shoot the badgers they are to blame for everything.

 

Incidentally knife manufacturers are responsible for all the stabbing that occur. If they didn't make knives then no one could stab anyone.

 

ADD THEM TO THE LIST

[Evilv]

dont know how about ireland or england,but wales is crawling with badgers,and imho they do need controlling not hunted to extinction,but carefull culling,when i go lamping ,i see more badgers than foxes nearly everytime,and its not unusual to see 4 or 5 badgers on every farm,and being dairy farms the farmers are tamping they cant do nothing about them,on the other hand,if the badgers that are resident are clean(infection clean) the farmers dont mind cos they live a while and defend their terriotry so keeping infected badgers moving in,trouble is when they get knocked over and then diseased badgers may move in and spread the disesase to other badgers and cattle.im not 100% sure nor is any one who gives who tb,but abdgers certinally cant be helpingand a cull wouldnt go a miss,nor would vacination s for cows .the debate goes on.

Deer also carry TB, whether they gave it to badgers or vice-versa is unknown, they also travel far greater distances, what do you want to do about deer?

 

Wipe 'em out!

 

I feel for the farmers - I feel they are just about the one business sector that get full compensation for spreading diseases. Take Bernard Mathews for an example. Millionaire turkey magnate runs an import business that brings turkey meat to Britain from Hungarian turkey operation, also owned by Mathews. Bird Flu in Hungary, followed rapidly by bird flu in Norfolk where the imported meat was received. Same strain of disease, no other vector. What happens? Bernard Mathews gets massive tax payer pay out.

 

I bet the other business men of Britain wish they got tax payer compensation for their disappointments and crises.

[codling99]

dont know how about ireland or england,but wales is crawling with badgers,and imho they do need controlling not hunted to extinction,but carefull culling,when i go lamping ,i see more badgers than foxes nearly everytime,and its not unusual to see 4 or 5 badgers on every farm,and being dairy farms the farmers are tamping they cant do nothing about them,on the other hand,if the badgers that are resident are clean(infection clean) the farmers dont mind cos they live a while and defend their terriotry so keeping infected badgers moving in,trouble is when they get knocked over and then diseased badgers may move in and spread the disesase to other badgers and cattle.im not 100% sure nor is any one who gives who tb,but abdgers certinally cant be helpingand a cull wouldnt go a miss,nor would vacination s for cows .the debate goes on.

Deer also carry TB, whether they gave it to badgers or vice-versa is unknown, they also travel far greater distances, what do you want to do about deer?

 

 

strange question,deer can are allready being culled quite regular by sportsmen and women ,not me personally,never seen a deer on any of my farms ,but id have no qualms shooting a deer if i was asked,or any other animal that was legally allowed to be shot ,apart from tb,and the probs they cause farmers,badgers are a flippin nuicance full stop,ripping holes in fences,attacking lambs,digging big holes,farmers aint gonna like them a lot no matter what they carry,and another side to this argument.... why the ... should we protect them anyways? cos their cute??? cuddly??? cos they certainly aint rare ,just do a head count on the side of motorway in carmarthen

 

and i reckon,if deer are part of a shoot,they should be fenced in appropriately so they cant escape on to farming land,and if their wild deer that roam free on to farms,then they can and should be shot as part of keeping wild numbers down.

Edited July 27, 2008 by codling99

[digger]

Evilv I seriously hope you lose any permission you have. I mean that in as much as either you really dont give a damn about farmers or are crass beyond words.

Amazed at how a cull has been equated to eradication

edited to add evilv could well be a troll, confrotational drivel.

Edited July 27, 2008 by digger

[Cranfield]

Lets keep it polite and stay on the subject, some tidying up has been done.

[salisburykeeper]

Evilv I seriously hope you lose any permission you have. I mean that in as much as either you really dont give a damn about farmers or are crass beyond words.

Amazed at how a cull has been equated to eradication

edited to add evilv could well be a troll, confrotational drivel.

this is the problem! (this is not pointed at you evilv)if a cull is brought in I can see idiots putting pictures up on forums with 30 badgers they had shot that evening and stuff like that.

 

its prob best that there isnt a cull as in some areas the badgers will be wiped out as there is no way that without watching a set first that anyone could tell how many are underground. Its a fact that for us farmers the badgers can be a pain in the **** and if numbers where less it would be easier to co exist

 

The way forward would be to have to apply for a ticket to shoot a certain amount in that area. I know not everyone would stick to it but if carried out by responsible shooters it would at least give a bit of control on number control rather than eradication

[Evilv]

Evilv I seriously hope you lose any permission you have. I mean that in as much as either you really dont give a damn about farmers or are crass beyond words.

Amazed at how a cull has been equated to eradication

edited to add evilv could well be a troll, confrotational drivel.

 

Sounds like you've had a few cans there mate. Don't worry about my permissions, I have more acres than I can get around and I got another 300 last week. I actually shot over 60 rabbits last week alone. That's why they take me on and insist that I come as often as possible.

 

Salisbury keeper has a sensible suggestion. Wildlife needs to be kept in balance, or things get too one-sided. The same goes for the occupiers of land. It can never be right that we allow a small interest group like farmers* to decide to eradicate a native animal, which is what would happen if it were allowed in this case. As we have seen here, they would act on emotion rather than fact. Some of the arguments evinced here are completely blind to the facts that in Ireland where badgers are virtually extinct, TB is rising to record levels. What does that mean? It should be clear - if badgers were a major cause of TB spread, in Ireland where there are virtually none left, TB would be falling. This conclusion seems to escape some and that is why government has to be involved to stop what would happen. Control of excessive numbers, and re-establishing a balance where a species has become far too numerous, is a sane, sensible, and proper response. In order to keep it out of the hands of idiots, Salisburykeeper's solution of a kind of license is a good one. I shoot hundreds of rabbits every summer because they are out of balance with the rest of nature. If badgers are out of balance in some areas they may need some control. A policy if general eradication as happened in Ireland is an ecological disaster. It happened because the demands of farmers based on inadequate thinking was placed above scientific evidence and the actual facts.

 

 

 

*Why are farmers described above as 'a small interest group'? Because the entire full time farming workforce is only 184,000 out of a population in the UK of approaching 61 million. That means that a third of one percent of the population are in full time farming. Even when we take into account all the hobby farmers, and those that keep the odd horse or goat in a field somewhere we find that the number is 534,000. That's still less that one percent of the entire British population. We can never let such a small proportion of our people dictate the fate of a native wild animal. That should be obvious to anybody that isn't drunk.

 

Figures on farming workforce derived from this source -> UK AGRICULTURE

Edited July 28, 2008 by Evilv

[Ferret Master]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I wasn't aware that a cull would result in wide spread eradication of the pigs from mainland Britain?

 

FM

[bob300w]

strange question,deer can are allready being culled quite regular by sportsmen and women ,not me personally,never seen a deer on any of my farms ,but id have no qualms shooting a deer if i was asked,or any other animal that was legally allowed to be shot ,apart from tb,and the probs they cause farmers,badgers are a flippin nuicance full stop,ripping holes in fences,attacking lambs,digging big holes,farmers aint gonna like them a lot no matter what they carry,and another side to this argument.... why the ... should we protect them anyways? cos their cute??? cuddly??? cos they certainly aint rare ,just do a head count on the side of motorway in carmarthen

 

and i reckon,if deer are part of a shoot,they should be fenced in appropriately so they cant escape on to farming land,and if their wild deer that roam free on to farms,then they can and should be shot as part of keeping wild numbers down.

 

If you are if fact a farmer as you imply, and I doubt it very much, as you would be aware that if badgers are causing the damage that you list, you can shoot them legally under section b/1, with a license from DEFRA.

 

Licensing Powers

Under the 1992 Act, licences may be issued by the Agricultural Departments (in England, this is Defra, in Wales, the National Assembly for Wales Agriculture Department and in Scotland, the Scottish Executive Environment and Rural Affairs Department (SEERAD)) for the following purposes;

 

a. to interfere with badger setts for the purpose of:

 

1/any agricultural or forestry operation;

2/any operation to maintain or improve any existing watercourse or drainage works, or to construct new works required for the drainage of land, including works of defence against seawater or tidal water;

3/controlling foxes in order to protect livestock and penned game.

 

b. to kill or take badgers or to interfere with their setts for the purpose of;

 

1/preventing serious damage to land, crops, poultry or any other form of property;

2/preventing the spread of disease.

 

See; http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/tb/abouttb/badger-legis.htm

 

A similar ruling applies to deer, mentioned in the latter part of your ramblings.

Edited July 28, 2008 by bob300w

[Cranfield]

I am pleased to confirm that TomBASC is indeed a fulltime employee of the BASC, as their Game and Gamekeeping Officer.

[bob300w]

I am pleased to confirm that TomBASC is indeed a fulltime employee of the BASC, as their Game and Gamekeeping Officer.

Shame that he did not have the courtesy to introduce himself to the forum, or at the very least to the moderators, before launching a controversial thread with his first post then.

[dustyfox]

I am pleased to confirm that TomBASC is indeed a fulltime employee of the BASC, as their Game and Gamekeeping Officer.

Shame that he did not have the courtesy to introduce himself to the forum, or at the very least to the moderators, before launching a controversial thread with his first post then.

 

Maybe he has been given the job of getting the petition round, but it would of been good to introduce himself.

 

Df

[jonno 357]

I am pleased to confirm that TomBASC is indeed a fulltime employee of the BASC, as their Game and Gamekeeping Officer.

[/quote/]

Well if he is? Which I very much doubt.We have DavidBASC and now TomBASC. He isn't doing a very good job. HasDavidBASC sent tom the tea boy to blood him? He seems to have brain washed a few but not the clever ones. Keep it going lads isn't interesting reading, especially dustfox

 

 

 

Jonno

[Cranfield]

I am sorry to the Troll Hunters and general **** stirrers, but he really is a fulltime employee of the BASC.

It has been officially confirmed, as we requested.

 

With regard to posting his CV before making his first post, that is not a requirement of the Forum, which is why 99.9% of the members don't do it.

[bob300w]

I am sorry to the Troll Hunters and general **** stirrers, but he really is a fulltime employee of the BASC.

It has been officially confirmed, as we requested.

 

With regard to posting his CV before making his first post, that is not a requirement of the Forum, which is why 99.9% of the members don't do it.

 

So if I add BASC to my name, I can start making posts on the forum trying to convince members that culling badgers is BASC's policy? Which as far as I can make out, it is not?

And if checking out someone who claims to represent a body such as BASC is not a requirement, why have you just done so?

Quite sad that you consider that a person claiming to represent a professional body has no need to introduce himself, even to the moderators, there are lads with airguns on this forum who have had the common courtesy to introduce themselves to the members before posting.

Had he filled in his profile with his position in BASC, it would have been something. Oddly, I see that David BASC has been viewing his profile.

Maybe DavidBASC can tell us exactly what BASC's position is on the subject of badger culling? And whether TomBASC speaks for himself or BASC?

[dustyfox]

 

Yeah any Tom, **** and Harry can put BASC after there name.

[jonno 357]

 

Yeah any Tom, **** and Harry can put BASC after there name.

 

 

Got to be politically correct now. Its Tom, **** and Abdul

 

Jonno

[codling99]

strange question,deer can are allready being culled quite regular by sportsmen and women ,not me personally,never seen a deer on any of my farms ,but id have no qualms shooting a deer if i was asked,or any other animal that was legally allowed to be shot ,apart from tb,and the probs they cause farmers,badgers are a flippin nuicance full stop,ripping holes in fences,attacking lambs,digging big holes,farmers aint gonna like them a lot no matter what they carry,and another side to this argument.... why the ... should we protect them anyways? cos their cute??? cuddly??? cos they certainly aint rare ,just do a head count on the side of motorway in carmarthen

 

and i reckon,if deer are part of a shoot,they should be fenced in appropriately so they cant escape on to farming land,and if their wild deer that roam free on to farms,then they can and should be shot as part of keeping wild numbers down.

 

If you are if fact a farmer as you imply, and I doubt it very much, as you would be aware that if badgers are causing the damage that you list, you can shoot them legally under section b/1, with a license from DEFRA.

 

Licensing Powers

Under the 1992 Act, licences may be issued by the Agricultural Departments (in England, this is Defra, in Wales, the National Assembly for Wales Agriculture Department and in Scotland, the Scottish Executive Environment and Rural Affairs Department (SEERAD)) for the following purposes;

 

a. to interfere with badger setts for the purpose of:

 

1/any agricultural or forestry operation;

2/any operation to maintain or improve any existing watercourse or drainage works, or to construct new works required for the drainage of land, including works of defence against seawater or tidal water;

3/controlling foxes in order to protect livestock and penned game.

 

b. to kill or take badgers or to interfere with their setts for the purpose of;

 

1/preventing serious damage to land, crops, poultry or any other form of property;

2/preventing the spread of disease.

 

See; http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/tb/abouttb/badger-legis.htm

 

A similar ruling applies to deer, mentioned in the latter part of your ramblings.

 

when i say "my farms" i mean farms that i have permission to shoot vermin on,not that i own farms. i shoot on literally thousands of acres spread over s.wales from carmarthen to newport,totaling around 18 farms or more,normally shooting foxes,rabbits ,crows,pigeons.

dont think im rambling either,just stateing an opinion,rather than causing trouble or looking for arguments.

was aware that you can apply to defra for permit for badgers,and you also need to have you fac altered accordingly too to state badgers on it,but to much of potch to shoot a few badgers,but if farmers apply id get my ticket altered .

i just cant see what the fuss is all about ,their badgers ,no different to me to foxes,rabbits ,pigeons or crows,if they need to be controlled ,why not,?? why are they protected?? cos they got pretty stripes?? their not rare in any sense of the word,deffinately not in s wales anyways,as said in a previous post,should be applied for on area basis.

[bob300w]

Gotcha, you can see why the confusion maybe? I agree with you, I would shoot them also if required by a farmer with a licence, and I have yet to pass up a chance at a deer.

The rambling that I referred to was in respect of fencing deer in, rather than fencing them off your land, totally impractical, as is fencing them off in reality. Not that they survive long on my patch (10,000+ acres of farmland). There's always room in the freezer for venison.

There may be plenty of badgers in your area, as there are in mine, but this is not true country-wide. If your farms have a problem with them, get a licence and shoot them, but I would keep it to yourself, it's a highly emotive subject, as you have noticed, and I would defintely not put a picture of the bodies on the forum with "Last Nghts Cull" or similar!

[codling99]

lol no probs mate,can imagine ,a nice pic of me standing holding two badgers by the tails with holes in their heads .

and i do ramble on a bit ,but think i will mention to farmers about the permit,but i bet its murder to get it,cant see them just handing them out,bet it takes months of letters,and visits by defra to farm,for them to say no you have not got enough reason,they would have to kill a child or something before they issue a permit i bet

[bob300w]

lol no probs mate,can imagine ,a nice pic of me standing holding two badgers by the tails with holes in their heads .

and i do ramble on a bit ,but think i will mention to farmers about the permit,but i bet its murder to get it,cant see them just handing them out,bet it takes months of letters,and visits by defra to farm,for them to say no you have not got enough reason,they would have to kill a child or something before they issue a permit i bet

The requiremnets are on the DEFRA site, and as you say, it's probably not going to be easy, but if they are a problem, go for it.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/tb/abouttb/badger-legis.htm

 

Assessing Licence Applications

In England and Wales, applications for a licence are assessed by Natural England. In Scotland, SEERAD Area Offices and Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) assess licence applications. This process involves a site visit and discussion with the applicant. These organisations will report to the relevant Animal Health Office in England and the Agricultural Departments in Wales and Scotland, which then determine the application.

 

Licences for the purpose of preventing damage will be issued where the relevant bodies are satisfied that:

 

the level of damage is sufficiently serious to justify the issue of a licence;

other methods of control have been shown to be ineffective or impractical and not just difficult to implement;

licensed action will be successful in reducing any damage that might be being caused.

Although there is no provision for a closed season under the Protection of Badgers Act 1992, the badger breeding season is taken into account when determining licence applications.

 

On 7 July 2008 Hilary Benn, the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs made a statement to Parliament about bovine TB and badgers, including that our policy will be not to issue licences to control bovine TB, increased investment in vaccines, and establishment of a Bovine TB Partnership Group with industry.

 

**************************************************************

The last paragraph is of particular interest, that licences will not be granted to control TB, suggesting that the conclusion has been reached that badgers do not spread TB as previously thought?

[Cranfield]

So if I add BASC to my name, I can start making posts on the forum trying to convince members that culling badgers is BASC's policy? Which as far as I can make out, it is not?

And if checking out someone who claims to represent a body such as BASC is not a requirement, why have you just done so?

Quite sad that you consider that a person claiming to represent a professional body has no need to introduce himself, even to the moderators, there are lads with airguns on this forum who have had the common courtesy to introduce themselves to the members before posting.

Had he filled in his profile with his position in BASC, it would have been something. Oddly, I see that David BASC has been viewing his profile.

Maybe DavidBASC can tell us exactly what BASC's position is on the subject of badger culling? And whether TomBASC speaks for himself or BASC?

 

When we saw the BASC affix to the username we started our enquiries at the BASC, unfortunately there was nobody who could help us until this morning.

You may recall that "Tom" did not claim to represent the BASC, the only time BASC was mentioned was in his username (which obviously suggested that he was an employee of the BASC).

If "Tom" had not been an employee of the BASC, he would have been asked to change his username.

 

Nobody has a requirement to introduce themselves to Moderators , or anyone else, unless they wish to advertise on the Forums.

I don't really see why it should be "sad" that they don't, but perhaps I am not so sensitive as some.

 

If you want to find out the official BASC position on badger culling, I suggest as a member, you telephone, or email them and ask.

[Fisherman Mike]

let nature take its course.....badgers spreading Bovine TB??? how can that be?? surely they must have caught it off the Bovines in the first place....so surely domestic cattle spread Musteline Tubercolosis

 

One of my shooting colleagues has carried out exstensive badger gassing in the cotswolds for Defra in the 90,s and guess what.... It hasnt made one bit of difference to the incidence of Bovine TB regionally.

 

Why dont the Farmers innoculate their cattle against Bovine TB.....well the answer is this would demonstrate that the desease is endemic in the national herd and thus globally reduce the appeal in British beef thus collapsing the market (remember BSE ?)

 

Until someone supplies unequivocal documentary evidence that Badgers spread bovine TB more than the cattle themselves then the cull should be suspended.

 

Im not signing a petetion im afraid.

 

FM

[JDFrain]

done and dusted.....

[Evilv]

I am pleased to confirm that TomBASC is indeed a fulltime employee of the BASC, as their Game and Gamekeeping Officer.

 

Is he representing their official policy?

 

Do they know he is using their name in advocating this line of action?

 

I thought BASC was a shooting and conservation organisation. His use of their name in this campaign seems contradictory to the aims of the organisation as I understand them. Is BASC a pressure group for the dairy industry now?

 

 

 

 

EDIT - Ah, on reading further, I see others have said pretty much the same.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Evilv