UK Handgun Petition

[staglioni]

Spot on evil

stag.

[tinbum71]

I'm glad to see that this lunatic suggestion has been met with subdued derision. The majority of people are sane and cautious, but a substantial minority lack control under provocation and over react. This can be bad enough when we're talking fists and boots, add a .44 to the mix and we have tragedy. The availability of pistols in the USA has led in a pretty fine country to a vast number of needless deaths. The idea everyone talks about seems noble - protecting yourself from insane home intruders, out to rape your wife and daughter or slaughter the family. In practice, there are guns everywhere and often in the hands of half crazed and ill-disciplined individuals. Result? at least five times the average European homicide rate. An American on average is five times as likely to be killed by another individual as the average Englishman.

The person who started this thread is a very misguided person.... I'm trying to be polite here.

If you have a good reason to own a sporting firearm here in the Uk it is easy to get one. The issuing of guns to allow you to shoot yourself out of trouble will never happen here. Just look how great it is where everyone can have a Klashnikov.

Spot on fella!

Guns ain't a problem in the colonies? Classic! Edited August 3, 2008 by tinbum71

[Dr_Scholl]

I'm glad to see that this lunatic suggestion has been met with subdued derision. The majority of people are sane and cautious, but a substantial minority lack control under provocation and over react. This can be bad enough when we're talking fists and boots, add a .44 to the mix and we have tragedy. The availability of pistols in the USA has led in a pretty fine country to a vast number of needless deaths. The idea everyone talks about seems noble - protecting yourself from insane home intruders, out to rape your wife and daughter or slaughter the family. In practice, there are guns everywhere and often in the hands of half crazed and ill-disciplined individuals. Result? at least five times the average European homicide rate. An American on average is five times as likely to be killed by another individual as the average Englishman.

 

The person who started this thread is a very misguided person.... I'm trying to be polite here.

 

If you have a good reason to own a sporting firearm here in the Uk it is easy to get one. The issuing of guns to allow you to shoot yourself out of trouble will never happen here. Just look how great it is where everyone can have a Klashnikov.

 

 

At least 75-80% of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals. Even here in the Wild West, if your a law abiding citizen not involved in illegal activity, your chances of being shot are close to nill. They did a study in Richmond a few years ago and discovered that your 22 times more likely to get shot if your involved in criminal activity. I live in a very gun friendly state where 152,000 people are licensed to carry, and I have yet to witness a shooting or mugging.

 

If guns are the problem, then what's up with Switzerland?

[Evilv]

I'm glad to see that this lunatic suggestion has been met with subdued derision. The majority of people are sane and cautious, but a substantial minority lack control under provocation and over react. This can be bad enough when we're talking fists and boots, add a .44 to the mix and we have tragedy. The availability of pistols in the USA has led in a pretty fine country to a vast number of needless deaths. The idea everyone talks about seems noble - protecting yourself from insane home intruders, out to rape your wife and daughter or slaughter the family. In practice, there are guns everywhere and often in the hands of half crazed and ill-disciplined individuals. Result? at least five times the average European homicide rate. An American on average is five times as likely to be killed by another individual as the average Englishman.

 

The person who started this thread is a very misguided person.... I'm trying to be polite here.

 

If you have a good reason to own a sporting firearm here in the Uk it is easy to get one. The issuing of guns to allow you to shoot yourself out of trouble will never happen here. Just look how great it is where everyone can have a Klashnikov.

 

 

At least 75-80% of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals. Even here in the Wild West, if your a law abiding citizen not involved in illegal activity, your chances of being shot are close to nill. They did a study in Richmond a few years ago and discovered that your 22 times more likely to get shot if your involved in criminal activity. I live in a very gun friendly state where 152,000 people are licensed to carry, and I have yet to witness a shooting or mugging.

 

If guns are the problem, then what's up with Switzerland?

 

I don't wish to disrespect your traditions. I'm not doing that. You folks do things the way you want to. That's none of my business.

 

The thing about Switzerland is that all of those weapons in everyones home are there in a military context. In many ways, those weapons are there in exactly the way envisaged by the writers of your constitution - 'a well regulated militia.' That is exactly what they are a part of. They are part of a formal national defense force that all able bodied men are a part of and are invested with the full rigor of military discipline, training and tradition. Also, I believe that most of them are long arms and not pistols. That's why Switzerland sees so little abuse of these firearms my friend. They are not a part of a free for all and they are not tied up with the media fed paranoia about 'home invasions' that is fueling fears in the US.

 

By the way, accepting for the moment your figures suggesting that 75% of US gun homicides are criminals killing criminals as you say, that still leaves 25% which are not. Since you have approaching 16000 homicides, we might reasonably conclude from your figure that 4000 people were shot to death who were not involved in crime. The total homicides in 2004/2005 in the UK including criminals killing criminals and black on black shootings was 810. That included the death toll of the London bombings. By the way, 16 people were shot in homicide killings in England that year. The number is usually less than twenty I think. How many do you think would be shot if we allowed handguns 'for protection', and how would that noble sounding reason for deregulation pan out when people had had a few drinks, discovered their wife had a lover, or lost control in a road rage incident?

 

Home Office figures - see page 49

Edited August 3, 2008 by Evilv

[Evilv]

Never underestimate the stupidity of Americans.

 

Remember what the National Rifle Association says. "Guns don't kill people, Americans do!"

 

Since some Americans visit this forum and make a good contribution to it, I would consider that remark bad manners.

[Fatcatsplat]

Here's my two penneth worth. I work in insurance and have done for years, primarily North American - We sell a lot of accidental death insurance (Not life insurance) and i would say that the number 3 cause of death (behind RTA's and industrial accidents) are weapons related, at least from what i have seen - A scary proportion of these have been escalated arguments where guns (plus the occasional knife, machete etc) are used, usually combined with an over consumption of alcohol or stimulants.

 

Personally i wouldn't trust myself with a spoon after a few jars - Beer bravado and a loaded gun just don't work.

 

Guns have a purpose within a controlled environment, where the specific environment or activity involves their use - Hunting, pest control, clays and target shooting - Other than that, lock 'em in your cabinet!

[Markio]

I'm glad to see that this lunatic suggestion has been met with subdued derision. The majority of people are sane and cautious, but a substantial minority lack control under provocation and over react. This can be bad enough when we're talking fists and boots, add a .44 to the mix and we have tragedy. The availability of pistols in the USA has led in a pretty fine country to a vast number of needless deaths. The idea everyone talks about seems noble - protecting yourself from insane home intruders, out to rape your wife and daughter or slaughter the family. In practice, there are guns everywhere and often in the hands of half crazed and ill-disciplined individuals. Result? at least five times the average European homicide rate. An American on average is five times as likely to be killed by another individual as the average Englishman.

 

The person who started this thread is a very misguided person.... I'm trying to be polite here.

 

If you have a good reason to own a sporting firearm here in the Uk it is easy to get one. The issuing of guns to allow you to shoot yourself out of trouble will never happen here. Just look how great it is where everyone can have a Klashnikov.

 

 

At least 75-80% of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals. Even here in the Wild West, if your a law abiding citizen not involved in illegal activity, your chances of being shot are close to nill. They did a study in Richmond a few years ago and discovered that your 22 times more likely to get shot if your involved in criminal activity. I live in a very gun friendly state where 152,000 people are licensed to carry, and I have yet to witness a shooting or mugging.

 

If guns are the problem, then what's up with Switzerland?

 

You keep quoting statistics regarding law abiding citizens and gun ownership yet has i have said that's not what bothers me, it about having that very gun turned back on me.

 

"75/80% percent of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals" Wow, so what of the other 25/20% of poor ****ers? Were they they all killed with love? I'm sure there's a very small chance i'll be randomly punched in the cock but if i wander around town with my fly undone then the percentage with increase. It's just like Kentucky Fried Chicken, "Go on, just have the chips" then before you know if you got a right **** storm on your hands".

[Dr_Scholl]

I'm glad to see that this lunatic suggestion has been met with subdued derision. The majority of people are sane and cautious, but a substantial minority lack control under provocation and over react. This can be bad enough when we're talking fists and boots, add a .44 to the mix and we have tragedy. The availability of pistols in the USA has led in a pretty fine country to a vast number of needless deaths. The idea everyone talks about seems noble - protecting yourself from insane home intruders, out to rape your wife and daughter or slaughter the family. In practice, there are guns everywhere and often in the hands of half crazed and ill-disciplined individuals. Result? at least five times the average European homicide rate. An American on average is five times as likely to be killed by another individual as the average Englishman.

 

The person who started this thread is a very misguided person.... I'm trying to be polite here.

 

If you have a good reason to own a sporting firearm here in the Uk it is easy to get one. The issuing of guns to allow you to shoot yourself out of trouble will never happen here. Just look how great it is where everyone can have a Klashnikov.

 

 

At least 75-80% of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals. Even here in the Wild West, if your a law abiding citizen not involved in illegal activity, your chances of being shot are close to nill. They did a study in Richmond a few years ago and discovered that your 22 times more likely to get shot if your involved in criminal activity. I live in a very gun friendly state where 152,000 people are licensed to carry, and I have yet to witness a shooting or mugging.

 

If guns are the problem, then what's up with Switzerland?

 

You keep quoting statistics regarding law abiding citizens and gun ownership yet has i have said that's not what bothers me, it about having that very gun turned back on me.

 

"75/80% percent of all homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals" Wow, so what of the other 25/20% of poor ****ers? Were they they all killed with love? I'm sure there's a very small chance i'll be randomly punched in the cock but if i wander around town with my fly undone then the percentage with increase. It's just like Kentucky Fried Chicken, "Go on, just have the chips" then before you know if you got a right **** storm on your hands".

 

You seem to have the notion that if you carry a concealed handgun you're more like;y to run into trouble. The stats show otherwise. Permit holders are just as likely, or unlikely, to encounter dangerous situations as non permit holders. In the few situations where they have had to use their weapons, they've done quite well.

 

Now i'm not saying that the UK should legalize CCW, i'm just trying to address some of the myths that a lot of people on here seem to have concerning it. I'm not saying my country's perfect, I know it isn't.

[Dave-G]

Joined: Yesterday, 01:47 AM

Profile Views: 0*

Last Seen: Today, 06:34 AM

Local Time: Aug 4 2008, 05:56 AM

1 posts (0.82 per day)

 

Looks like the OP don't want to talk to us anymore

[PAULT]

this is a real bad idea

[bob300w]

Dr Scholl;You seem to have the notion that if you carry a concealed handgun you're more like;y to run into trouble. The stats show otherwise. Permit holders are just as likely, or unlikely, to encounter dangerous situations as non permit holders. In the few situations where they have had to use their weapons, they've done quite well.

 

Now i'm not saying that the UK should legalize CCW, i'm just trying to address some of the myths that a lot of people on here seem to have concerning it. I'm not saying my country's perfect, I know it isn't.

 

You seem to be missing the point of concern here with your statement "Permit holders are just as likely, or unlikely, to encounter dangerous situations " the whole concern is that if you do get into this situation, it is going to be made a whole lot worse if you pull a gun, as you are probably going to have it taken off of you and used against, most of us regard our lives as worth more than fifty quid and some easily replaced plastic.

The police are probably the most highly trained individuals with firearms in this country, and they make mistakes, 60,000,000+ wandering around with pistols? I don't think so.

As a matter of very pertinent interest, how many innocent people, children, and bystanders are killed by handguns every year in the states?

Add to this equation that everyone on this forum knows somebody who would not have been issued with a FAC or SGC if they had been their FAO.

As for addressing myths, you seem to be under the impression that we are a bit naive regarding guns in this country, trust me, we ain't. It's the people who use guns that are replying to you, not Joe Public.

[Markio]

You seem to have the notion that if you carry a concealed handgun you're more like;y to run into trouble.

 

No, that's not my point. But Bob has made my point perfectly. Now i was drunk last night and still mildly drunk now so i'll leave this thread to run it's course for a while.

[Dr_Scholl]

As for addressing myths, you seem to be under the impression that we are a bit naive regarding guns in this country, trust me, we ain't. It's the people who use guns that are replying to you, not Joe Public.

 

I never said you were. But this is one subject that I have a lot more experience with. My dad's had a permit for 30 years, and he's had to pull his gun 3 times. And not once has it ever made the situation worse.

 

One was 26 years ago when he was doing some PI work. He went up to a house in a bad part of Portsmouth and 3 guys came out, one with a kitchen knife, and rushed toward him. When the guy with the knife got within about 10 feet, my father pulled a Colt Commander and managed to raise it up the guys head before he could use the knife. They went back inside, he backed away, got in his car and left. I remember him telling me as he was driving down the street and his adrenaline began wearing off, he started shaking all over.

 

My sister and grandfather also have permits.

[Dunkield]

I won't be 'signing' it, I don't agree with it, and e-petions are complete waste of time anyway - as has already been stated.

 

I can't think of one situation I have ever been in that a handgun would have improved.

[Evilv]

I won't be 'signing' it, I don't agree with it, and e-petions are complete waste of time anyway - as has already been stated.

 

I can't think of one situation I have ever been in that a handgun would have improved.

 

 

Completely right, and I can think of some where I might easily have lost it and fired on someone. The thing that is essentially different about the carrying for protection thing and having a rifle for sport or pest control is this: nobody but a total loon would think of taking his .223 out to sort out a problem with another person. It is in the cupboard, locked up until you go foxing or whatever. A .357 magnum in a shoulder holster is for one thing - shooting bad people. Who are the bad people? People I'm upset with? I think the different mindset invites the 'protection' handgun to be used in a way that would only very rarely happen with a sporting rifle, and only then with a seriously disordered person. We can't say that sporting firearms are never used in homicide can we, but the Robert Sartins, Michael Ryans and Thomas Hamiltons of this world are the one in ten million kind of psychos we all dread meeting on their bad day.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Evilv

[bob300w]

As for addressing myths, you seem to be under the impression that we are a bit naive regarding guns in this country, trust me, we ain't. It's the people who use guns that are replying to you, not Joe Public.

 

I never said you were. But this is one subject that I have a lot more experience with My dad's had a permit for 30 years, and he's had to pull his gun 3 times. And not once has it ever made the situation worse.

 

One was 26 years ago when he was doing some PI work. He went up to a house in a bad part of Portsmouth and 3 guys came out, one with a kitchen knife, and rushed toward him. When the guy with the knife got within about 10 feet, my father pulled a Colt Commander and managed to raise it up the guys head before he could use the knife. They went back inside, he backed away, got in his car and left. I remember him telling me as he was driving down the street and his adrenaline began wearing off, he started shaking all over.

 

My sister and grandfather also have permits.

What a ridiculous and arrogant statement, there are probably a dozen people on this thread, you know not a single thing about any one of them, their firearms experience, lives, not even their names, and you state "But this is one subject that I have a lot more experience with."

If you had any experience at all, surely who would have quoted one of your own experiences, not one of your fathers, from 26 years ago?

Also your father was a PI, you would expect him to get into these situations, a far cry from Joe Public strolling down to Tesco's with his kids.

Jesus H Christ on a push bike, I've heard better arguments from a politician.

[Maiden22]

I have to say that I can see both sides of the argument. I think that Dr Scholl's opinion is supported by a lot of evidence, although I wouldn't like to see similar laws here. What might be appropriate for the States wouldn't be right for the UK, in my opinion.

 

Handguns for sporting purposes, certainly, and defend yourself and your family in your own home using anything to hand. Beyond that I think it is a very slippery slope, as others have said.

 

 

These petitions are as hilarious as they are meaningless

 

How about the petitions for:

 

1. free beer on Fridays

2. petrol down to 2p a gallon

3. free Aston Martins for anyone from Essex

4. mandatory star jumps for 18-35 years olds with a cup size of D or greater

 

All very compelling in their own ways, all completely unrealistic.

 

I weep for the 1p electricity used accessing the petition website to read it.

 

 

That is to say, more nonsense from Mung:

 

1. The nation's guts are expanding at an alarming rate as it is.

3. I thought that you Essex chaps had your own way of getting "free" Aston Martins anyway.

4. Mrs Maiden is exceptionally well "ahem" endowed. Not so much a generous bosom as an absolutely profligate one.

 

As for number 2, petrol does cost about 2p per gallon (before Broon swoops on it).

 

Having said that, get the link up and I'll sign number 4.

 

Robert

[Ice]

I Love the way it asks for a donation after you have signed

[cubix]

Somethings not right here, this looks like a Troll - reporter, student? - trying to get someone else to have the debate for them.

 

No to handguns - once you have them in general circulation that's how they find their way into the hands of criminals as a result of burglary, carlessness, complacency etc . It would not happen very often, but often enough.

[Dr_Scholl]

As for addressing myths, you seem to be under the impression that we are a bit naive regarding guns in this country, trust me, we ain't. It's the people who use guns that are replying to you, not Joe Public.

 

I never said you were. But this is one subject that I have a lot more experience with My dad's had a permit for 30 years, and he's had to pull his gun 3 times. And not once has it ever made the situation worse.

 

One was 26 years ago when he was doing some PI work. He went up to a house in a bad part of Portsmouth and 3 guys came out, one with a kitchen knife, and rushed toward him. When the guy with the knife got within about 10 feet, my father pulled a Colt Commander and managed to raise it up the guys head before he could use the knife. They went back inside, he backed away, got in his car and left. I remember him telling me as he was driving down the street and his adrenaline began wearing off, he started shaking all over.

 

My sister and grandfather also have permits.

What a ridiculous and arrogant statement, there are probably a dozen people on this thread, you know not a single thing about any one of them, their firearms experience, lives, not even their names, and you state "But this is one subject that I have a lot more experience with."

If you had any experience at all, surely who would have quoted one of your own experiences, not one of your fathers, from 26 years ago?

Also your father was a PI, you would expect him to get into these situations, a far cry from Joe Public strolling down to Tesco's with his kids.

Jesus H Christ on a push bike, I've heard better arguments from a politician.

 

Whatever, i've said my piece. I could care less what any of y'all think.

 

I've had more open minded conversations with a brick wall.

[el-chimbo]

so if this all does ahead, we'll be able to walk into ASDA and buy guns.. may well work in usa, but NOT for uk..

[bob300w]

so if this all does ahead, we'll be able to walk into ASDA and buy guns.. may well work in usa, but NOT for uk..

That's the whole point, it does not work in the usa, so even less reason to believe that it would work here.

[salisburykeeper]

is this serious? you would have to be a total ******* brain to try and bring back handguns for protection!? ask yourself this if you and an attacker both have a gun how does yours protect you? I suppose if you are billy the kid you have a chance! this has got to be a wind up thread!

[Dr_Scholl]

is this serious? you would have to be a total ******* brain to try and bring back handguns for protection!? ask yourself this if you and an attacker both have a gun how does yours protect you? I suppose if you are billy the kid you have a chance! this has got to be a wind up thread!

 

Make sure you have a bigger gun than the bad guy.

 

On a more serious note, guns do level the playing field. Especially if you're a woman.

[starlight32]

Never underestimate the stupidity of Americans.

 

Remember what the National Rifle Association says. "Guns don't kill people, Americans do!"

 

Since some Americans visit this forum and make a good contribution to it, I would consider that remark bad manners.

 

 

I will second that, and find remarks like tinbum's totally uncalled for on the forum.