best calibre for deer 6.5x55 or 308

[tinytim38]

Hi I am considering buying another gun specifically for deer, I already have a .243 complete with moderator and bipod which I use for fox and deer, however for deer would like something lighter to carry so am considering a gun without mod or bipod to keep the weight down, along with the fact that I like 55 grain ballistic tips for fox and I need to use 100 grain soft points for deer which means rezeroing depending on what I intend to shoot which is far from practical especially now the nights are drawing in.

Thought about a .308 but I also like the ballistics of a 6.5x55, does anyone have any personel experience of these two calibres and what are your thoughts

cheers

Tim

Edited September 2, 2008 by tinytim38

[Dunkield]

Blimey , light the blue touch paper

 

If this doesn't smoke Bob out nothing will, maybe Harnser will have provide the 'jack of all trades' stuff about the 308 this time round . .

 

6.5 for me and I have shot both but not shot deer with both.

I have shot deer with my 6.5 and none of them lived to tell the tale.

 

If you already have a .243 why not go for a bigger one like a 7mm?

[redthunder]

Alrite tim, Pie was saying to go for a 30-06. bit harder to get ammo not all gun shops got it in stock. Or the other option is a 270 there cheap as chips second hand and leaves you with more to spend on glass

Edited September 2, 2008 by redthunder

[Oly]

Personally I would go for the .308 - less meat damage IMO...plus mry716 Steyr is a bargain!! http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...29&hl=steyr

[jcbruno]

both are very close your choice realy

[Dunkield]

Personally I would go for the .308 - less meat damage IMO

 

Please expand on that one Oly

[wannabefisher]

interesting - this is exactly the situation I am in down to the last detail. I just posted my variation application on monday for a 338 federal

[casts_by_fly]

do you reload? For me, I'd have to take a 308 if I weren't going to reload for it. There is so much 308 ammo available that you will definitely find something that your gun likes. If you do reload it doesn't matter too much.

 

The other consideration I'd have is which deer are you shooting? If shooting bigger stuff more often then the 308 will give you the availability of heavier bullets. Same if you want to shoot boar.

 

Really though you won't go wrong with either.

 

thanks,

rick

[Dunkield]

If you want a light rifle a 6.5 is much milder so won't beat you up like 308 will in a light gun, but Rick also makes some good points.

 

Here are some words of wisdom balently ripped off reloadersnest on both rounds:

 

Soon after World War II, the U.S. Government issued contracts to Winchester and Remington for assistance in the development of a replacement cartridge for the .30-06. The result of those efforts was a shorter version of the .30-06called T-65. Later the name was changed to 7.62mm NATO. The .308 Winchester has won more benchrest matches than any other cartridge above the 6mm caliber. And continues to win more Hunter class benchrest matches than all other cartridges combined. The .308 is also one of our most popular big game cartridges, not only in the U.S. But in many other countries as well. For hunting deer size game at close to medium ranges, the .308 Winchester loaded to about 2800 fps with a 150 grain bullet is an excellent performer. The .308 is by no means one of our better elk cartridges, but when loaded with a good 180 grain bullet it will suffice. H380, H335, IMR-4895, RL-12, and W-748are excellent powders for the .308 Winchester.

 

and

 

Thousands of Swedish Mausers imported into the U.S. After World War II introduced American hunters to what many consider to be the finest medium capacity 6.5mm cartridge developed during the tail end of the 19th century. And of all the war surplus rifles that invaded American soil during the fifties and sixties, the little Sweede carbine was the one we all wanted. It has class. Workmanship and accuracy were second to none. Even today the 6.5 x 55mm is an extremely popular cartridge among American hunters. And many Scandinavian hunters consider the little 6.5 to be potent medicine for all big game up to the size of moose. Norma offers several factory loads; one a 139 grain spitzer at 2800 fps, another a 156 grain round nose at 2500 fps. For all around hunting of deer size game with the little 6.5, the Nosler125 grain and Hornady129 grain bullets are excellent choices. For Whitetails and Pronghorn in open country, the 120 grain Speerand 120 grain Noslershoot flat and hit hard. For woods hunting, trying the Hornady160 grain round nose. When it comes to powders there is no best choice. Feed the 6.5 x 55mm anything that burns at a slow to medium rate and it will sing a pretty song.

[njc110381]

I'd go for the 6.5x55 in a light gun. I don't like to get any more recoil than I have to, and my 6.5 T3 Hunter recoils about the same as a heavy .308 target rifle I use at the club. I'm no expert on shooting Deer as I'm just getting into it really. What I must say though is that I know a couple of guys who really rate the calibre, and use them on Reds at fairly long ranges regularly. If they didn't do the job, they'd have changed them for something else by now! I bought mine on their advice and love it.

[Traztaz]

Both are popular calibers here in Germany, and both will shoot all deer without a hicup as far as punch goes , I chose .308 purely because it is the ford escort caliber , everyone has one , everyone has ammo for it and its easily available.

[Harnser]

I wont get drawn on this one this time . How ever ,take it from an old shooter who has had all the stalking calibres and the one gun stalking rifle is in my opinion is the .308 . It really is the jack of all trades rifle and master of them all . I promise not to get involved in the battle of the calibres again . Its not really my fault as i dont start the thread off . .308 , .308 .

Harnser .

[Trussman]

Harnser, have you ever shot a muntjac with your .308? If so, could you tell me the effect i.e. meat damge?

 

Ta

[Harnser]

Harnser, have you ever shot a muntjac with your .308? If so, could you tell me the effect i.e. meat damge?

 

Ta

 

Trussmen ,

 

The meat damage question allways crop up at some time or another . If a deer is shot properly ,through the neck were it joins the shoulder (not to low , dont want to hit the windpipe ) or through the heart and lungs the meat damage is minimal . The most damage i have seen on a properly shot deer dosent account for more than a few ounces ,mainly from the exit wound proberbly the size of your fist . The most damage will come from a porly shoot deer that has been gut shot as the contents of the bladder and the bowl will spoil the meat . Another spoiler of meat is bad butchering .

As to your question yes i have shot muntjac and chineese water deer with the .308 with minimal meat damage .

I have allways believed in stalking in close so that i can take the more difficult neck shot as this will kill the beast instantly without spoiling the meat .I might just add that the neck shot should only be attempted by a confident rifleman .

Remember the thrill is in the stalk ,not in the kill . Harnser .

[Trussman]

Thanks Harnser

[Dunkield]

Exactly what Harnser says, the FACTS about meat damage (not opinions ) is that big slow bullets do far less meat damage than fast small ones, talk to people who actually shoot animals to harvest their meat and see what they use.

[njc110381]

The talk of meat damage seems to come up all the time. As stuart and harnser say, it seems that faster bullets mess things up quite badly. Both the 6.5x55 and .308 tend to work with fairly heavy but not stupidly fast bullets, so either are ok. I've recently been chatting in other places about the .375H&H I've applied for, and many US hunters say it does less meat damage to a Deer than a .270 if the shot placement is slightly out. That's something I never would have believed, but I'm happy to take the word of guys that have used them.

[Harnser]

Just out of interest i all ways shoot a 150 grain bullet loaded to approx 2500 ft per second . Not an over potent round for the .308 but more than enough power for any european deer . Bullet placement is the most important factor for a clean kill than anything else . If you are not sure of the shot then dont take it . Harnser .

[Oly]

the FACTS about meat damage (not opinions ) is that big slow bullets do far less meat damage than fast small ones

 

Bit of a jibe there Stu??

 

However, there are very few times when you shoot two identical deer in identical conditions, identical shot placement with both a .308 and 6.5. Unless your going to bring a pair of twin deer into a lab to shoot with both calibres I would say it's very difficult to say that you have seen real life (and not ballistic) fact. From what I have personally SEEN .308's have generally come off more favourably, but then that may have been down to errors in any of the variables mentioned above.

 

However, if you wish to look at the ballistics of it all (which also will not be true perfect fact due to variables in all ballistic tests - but will be the best evidence that we have at the moment) then either calibre at the ranges you will normally be shooting at in the UK will be more than adequate (for example see the bottom table on http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report05.htm).

 

Given that science is changing all the time FACT is only a concept - otherwise we would still be saying the world is flat (just read any reputable science journals and see how many times the word 'fact' is used)! Living with my wife whilst did her PhD in the inaccuracies of modelling the 'real' world we had many discussions about such errors/variables (admittedly not the most fun thing to do with your evenings for four years!), and we both agree, in reality you need to combine your experience and science when making decisions - then the inherent errors/variables are reduced as much as possible...and you should be happiest with the choice you have made.

[Harnser]

the FACTS about meat damage (not opinions ) is that big slow bullets do far less meat damage than fast small ones

 

Bit of a jibe there Stu??

 

However, there are very few times when you shoot two identical deer in identical conditions, identical shot placement with both a .308 and 6.5. Unless your going to bring a pair of twin deer into a lab to shoot with both calibres I would say it's very difficult to say that you have seen real life (and not ballistic) fact. From what I have personally SEEN .308's have generally come off more favourably, but then that may have been down to errors in any of the variables mentioned above.

 

However, if you wish to look at the ballistics of it all (which also will not be true perfect fact due to variables in all ballistic tests - but will be the best evidence that we have at the moment) then either calibre at the ranges you will normally be shooting at in the UK will be more than adequate (for example see the bottom table on http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report05.htm).

 

Given that science is changing all the time FACT is only a concept - otherwise we would still be saying the world is flat (just read any reputable science journals and see how many times the word 'fact' is used)! Living with my wife whilst did her PhD in the inaccuracies of modelling the 'real' world we had many discussions about such errors/variables (admittedly not the most fun thing to do with your evenings for four years!), and we both agree, in reality you need to combine your experience and science when making decisions - then the inherent errors/variables are reduced as much as possible...and you should be happiest with the choice you have made.

 

Oly ,

I bet you have a real problem crossing the road Harnser .

[njc110381]

If you don't damage the deer, it wont die. The more you damage it, the quiker it will die. What do you valu more, a few extra ounces of meat or a clear, clean conscience?

 

 

A very good point that!

 

It is good to damage it enough to kill it but still retain maximum meat for consumption though. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be shooting Deer with a V-Max out of a .458 lott

 

I think either calibre is well proven with the shooting community. If they are the only two you're stuck between you're not going to go far wrong whatever you decide. A well placed shot with either will down anything we have in the UK.

[Traztaz]

I do not understand the argument that a naeck shot damages less meat than a boiler room shot.The neck on a deer is one of the more meaty areas, where as a properly placed boiler room shot passes through nothing more than the rib cage ( What on earth is there to eat in this area) and created heart and lung soup on its journy.The exit wound can look rather large, especially if you hit rib at the point of impact, however as I said , all you are loosing is rib.............do not get it , could someone explain?

[rocksaplenty]

I like the .270 for roe. If you hit the boiler room right - the bullet goes straight through without much damage. If you make a mistake and hit it in the wrong place, the round expands and does enough damage to give a quick kill.

 

- just my opinion!

[Harnser]

I do not understand the argument that a naeck shot damages less meat than a boiler room shot.The neck on a deer is one of the more meaty areas, where as a properly placed boiler room shot passes through nothing more than the rib cage ( What on earth is there to eat in this area) and created heart and lung soup on its journy.The exit wound can look rather large, especially if you hit rib at the point of impact, however as I said , all you are loosing is rib.............do not get it , could someone explain?

 

Traztaz ,

 

My reff to the neck shot is that it is proberbly the best instant death shot you can drop a deer with and it does not spoil to much meat . Or a bullet placed through the spine and into the heart and lungs from a high seat . In my opinion a properly shot deer does not suffer very much meat damage . I think people go over the top worrying about bullet damage causing lots of meat damage . Whats a lot of meat damage ? . I have never seen more than a few ounces of meat damage caused by shooting . Also i find a neck shot deer to be much easier to gut and butcher than a deer shot through the heart and lungs . The worst damage to a deer that i have seen after being shot ,was in america when a hunter shot a whitetail buck front on between the legs with a 12 gauge slug . The slug went through the heart spun around the inside of the deer and exited in the rear end of the buck . It was a total mess and when gutted it looked like ite insides had been put through a mincer . Now that was real meat damage . Harnser .