Official shooting permission

[funky]

MMM lets see verbal contract or written well all my shooting is verbal until i went FAC and if you remember applying for a SGC it does not ask where you will or intend to use it ,, But when the FAO interviews you he does.

 

My point is if you do not have a permission you may still get a SGC. once permission is obtained you can legally use the shot gun on said permission, this permission can be verbal or written.

 

the law states

There is no legal impediment to the parties entering into a contract based on their conduct and verbal statements or representations. When parties agree the terms of the contract by verbal statements, the binding terms of the contract are more difficult to ascertain. Usually a court will look to the history of the statements made by the parties and the performance of the parties to obtain assistance in determining what was actually agreed by the parties. Where one person however has not performed their part of the bargain, and court is left to more uncertain means in reaching a decision. Draft contract documents, emails, letters and order forms may lend assistance to deciding the terms of a verbal agreement, and courts have used similar agreements with third parties to apply a standard of reasonableness in determining the terms of the contract in the absence of writing.

 

Legally written statement is better if you intend on ******* your farmer off but in a court of law they both hold water

 

Legal Binding Agreements and Verbal Contracts

 

In order to form a contract, the parties must agree on what either party will do under the terms of the contract; they must have the intention to form contractual relations; and there must be consideration. It is immaterial whether the contract is verbal, in writing, or partially verbal and partially written, although common sense says that recording the agreement in writing creates a document that may be referred to for its terms in the event of a dispute between the parties. Obviously, this is particularly important when disputes arise in respect of the agreement, whether the dispute arises in respect to the work to be performed or sums to be paid under the agreement. Both verbal contracts and written contracts are equally legally binding contracts, subject to the existence of the usual requirements for formation of a contract.

 

And as they say I rest my case .... my permissions are all verbal and that's all they need to be, as I help the farmer make his money by walking his land and shooting what he allows me to shoot and keep the vermin down, In my case i have FAC on the same land now and that's written permission as you all know.

 

And if a farmer gives verbal permission and then retracts it well that his right as the land owner.

 

I thinking people who want exclusive shooting on a permission need this But i will put money that most written contract would create as much problems in a court as a verbal agreement ,,, they would have to be witnessed and counter signed and duplicated all the I's dotted and T's crossed. no farmer would do that unless there was bundles of cash involved. Hands up for verbal i say. but to each their own

 

All the best from Mr Funky

Edited December 15, 2008 by funky

[markbivvy]

and if you remember applying for a SGC it does not ask where you will or intend to use it ,, But when the FAO interviews you he does.

 

My point is if you do not have a permission you may still get a SGC. once permission is obtained you can legally use the shot gun on said permission, this permission can be verbal or written

 

 

 

as far as i know you dont need any permission at all to have a shotgun cert.

i know a few clay bashers who have never seen a farm.

Edited December 15, 2008 by markbivvy

[funky]

thats what i said me old mate

 

second para i quote " My point is if you do not have a permission you may still get a SGC. sorry if i confused you.....

Edited December 15, 2008 by funky

[markbivvy]

thats what i said me old mate

 

second para i quote " My point is if you do not have a permission you may still get a SGC. sorry if i confused you.....

 

just agreeing with you funky sorry for the mix up.

[proTOM1]

out of around 20 farms only 2 have wanted to give writen permission and i think its up to them if they do so or not ,some dont like to give writen permission for 1 reason or another at thats fine as long as if i have a problem or they have a problem we can get in touch with each other . i think its good to have writen permission but verbal is fine as long as you go about things right !

[funky]

Well said protom1 :hmm:

 

Any way I have been thinking Our sport is supposed to be fun a past time a thing to do to unwind some people take things very serious and go over the top this statement is not aimed at anyone ,, but we all know some one of that nature.

Yes shooting can be dangerous and deadly but the ultimate pursuit of the sport is to do what you love doing and any one who feels the way i do will always enjoy and have fun in an fashion which suits all concerned.

Farmers and land owners are the gate keepers for us, but they need us as we need them we both benefit from a

a mutual agreement why does it need to be more or why would any party of a agreement sabotage such an agreement. its a clear cut thing in my book yes you can shoot on my land or no you no longer can shoot on my land.

Either way the land owner hold the aces bits of paper don't mean squat. and in saying that owning the land does not mean they have the shooting rights so unless you research every bit of land you got you cant actually say the permission is legal... :lol: :lol:

 

It like anything once you use the word LEGAL it get complicated .....

 

One thing I know for sure if there was any real legal benefit in having a written permission then it would be a criteria within the application of a shot gun. as it is for FAC..

 

Edited December 15, 2008 by funky

[starlight32]

Some years ago i tackled a couple of the farmers who owned land I shoot over for written permission and was clearly told no. Once they give you something in writing they to become liable if there is an accident. All my shooting is with verbal permission with the exception of my my wildfowling club.

 

 

i this day and age if you shoot without some form of written permission you are either desperate for the shooting and will take it anyway it comes and/or are taking chances, and anyone taking chances who carries a Shottie or Rifle,,,,,,

 

 

well you can guess my thought process

 

Well I feel it is a mixed return here...... at the end of the day this is the scenario, if you have written permission most police will want it backed up by a phone call if they stop you so whats the difference? You have apiece of paper and when farmer is rang he gets cold feet you are still in the pooh.... Right or wrong?

[funky]

i this day and age if you shoot without some form of written permission you are either desperate for the shooting and will take it anyway it comes and/or are taking chances, and anyone taking chances who carries a Shottie or Rifle,,,,,,

 

 

well you can guess my thought process

Well I am going to stick up for all those who have verbal permission

 

Bit of a bold assumption there. Assuming that people with verbal permissions are some how desperate and are chance takers.

I assure you I for one am not, and i am sure, the majority of our fellow shooters on this forum are not of that inclination either.

:lol:

Also with regards to anyone guessing what you are thinking, which is not difficult as you said "yes" that means,that you believe or assume, all people with out written permission are desperate and chance takers, in your assumed opinion. I come to this conclusion by applying the fact, that you don't know me.

:P

Unless you do know me, and i don't know you, which is possible. But that would be less probable than me assuming that i do know you, and assume you were haphazard with a shootie or rifle.

if you get what i mean.

 

:look: :look: If I have confused you :look:

 

let me enlighten you..........YOU take to be the case or to be true; that YOU accept without verification or proof; if anyone shoots without some form of written permission they are either.....HERE COMES THE ASSUMPTION... desperate for the shooting and will take it anyway it comes and/or are taking chances, and anyone taking chances who carries a Shottie or Rifle,,,,,,

well you can guess my thought process they are ........Thank you for the vote of confidence

 

A fine definition of an assumption... :lol:

 

Well I am off to get my farmer to give me written permission as i do not want to appear desperate and be branded a chance taker... ROFLMAO

[Highlander]

Its a funny thing that human nature being what it is dictates that in the event of a problem, mishap, insurance claim, plain stupidity or whatever when things go wrong people will deny or make sure they have no responsibility for it. This works both ways but if it’s in writing i.e. black and white at least there’s something provable to stand by. Verbal agreements are just that...a lot of hot air! And very difficult to prove.

 

There was a court case very recently in Norfolk, farmer and friend held a ‘coursing day’. At the trial a policeman denied he’d agreed that the day was legal but the couple had him on tape giving his opinion.

[pavman]

Well I am going to stick up for all those who have verbal permission

 

Bit of a bold assumption there. Assuming that people with verbal permissions are some how desperate and are chance takers.

I assure you I for one am not, and i am sure, the majority of our fellow shooters on this forum are not of that inclination either.

:lol:

Also with regards to anyone guessing what you are thinking, which is not difficult as you said "yes" that means,that you believe or assume, all people with out written permission are desperate and chance takers, in your assumed opinion. I come to this conclusion by applying the fact, that you don't know me.

:P

Unless you do know me, and i don't know you, which is possible. But that would be less probable than me assuming that i do know you, and assume you were haphazard with a shootie or rifle.

if you get what i mean.

 

:look: :look: If I have confused you :look:

 

let me enlighten you..........YOU take to be the case or to be true; that YOU accept without verification or proof; if anyone shoots without some form of written permission they are either.....HERE COMES THE ASSUMPTION... desperate for the shooting and will take it anyway it comes and/or are taking chances, and anyone taking chances who carries a Shottie or Rifle,,,,,,

well you can guess my thought process they are ........Thank you for the vote of confidence

 

A fine definition of an assumption... :lol:

 

Well I am off to get my farmer to give me written permission as i do not want to appear desperate and be branded a chance taker... ROFLMAO

 

IMHO

 

if you dont ask for a written permission at the outset you are taking chances (its common sense) or the farmer wont give you one and you still take it on you have to ask yourself......why…. and in that case and or perhaps you have no other shooting opportunities you may well be desperate to get a start and are happy to take a verbal……

 

There is no assumption or intended play on words etc, Its about trying to have an agreement in place that sets out in as reasonable terms a possible the conditions relating to what you are doing, what you can and cant do and where you can/cant do it,,,, etc

 

If you don’t, you may never have cause to worry (and lets all hope that’s the case) but if you have it in place you have a very good starting position should you need to defend yourself or actions at any time and that’s surely a much more preferable situation to be in

[webber]

IMHO

 

if you don't ask for a written permission at the outset you are taking chances (its common sense) or the farmer wont give you one and you still take it on you have to ask yourself......why…. and in that case and or perhaps you have no other shooting opportunities you may well be desperate to get a start and are happy to take a verbal……

 

There is no assumption or intended play on words etc, Its about trying to have an agreement in place that sets out in as reasonable terms a possible the conditions relating to what you are doing, what you can and cant do and where you can/cant do it,,,, etc

 

If you don’t, you may never have cause to worry (and lets all hope that’s the case) but if you have it in place you have a very good starting position should you need to defend yourself or actions at any time and that’s surely a much more preferable situation to be in

 

Absolutely agree.

 

webber

[funky]

:lol: I concur :hmm:

[Blackbart]

What a load of utter ********

 

I think some people have gone the same way as this country in its infatuation with rules regs and everything pc

 

If someone thinks i am a"risky or dodgy shot" because i havent got a piece of paper in my pocket, i would think its their mental state that needs looking at not mine !!

 

If a farmer asks me to come and shoot a fox(which they often do)you dont say "can i have that in writing".In the event that the police do get involved it would be better if it was in writing but not having it isnt the end of the world you are making it out to be

[markbivvy]

Its about trying to have an agreement in place that sets out in as reasonable terms a possible the conditions relating to what you are doing, what you can and cant do and where you can/cant do it,,,, etc

 

looks like this bit came straight out of a shooting organizations hand book.

[proTOM1]

What a load of utter ********

 

I think some people have gone the same way as this country in its infatuation with rules regs and everything pc

 

If someone thinks i am a"risky or dodgy shot" because i havent got a piece of paper in my pocket, i would think its their mental state that needs looking at not mine !!

 

If a farmer asks me to come and shoot a fox(which they often do)you dont say "can i have that in writing".In the event that the police do get involved it would be better if it was in writing but not having it isnt the end of the world you are making it out to be

 

 

well said

 

alot of my permission i have had for many years and have got alot of my permission through beating and working on there farmers land a time or 2 then they have let me come and shoot and im not going to turn round and say i want that in writing as now days there are so many others out there looking for land that they may turn round and say well i will give it to someone who does not need that sort of thing . im not saying that i dont want writen permission because i do really but it is not the end of the world if all i have is verbal but each to there own !

[Billy the Kid]

The 3 main farms I operate on are owned by friends & I have had permission on these from childhood ,indeed they are probably 6 generation permissions as my kids now enjoy the various country sports on offer as have family members long gone.I would feel very uneasy asking for written permission,it would be like undermining family associations & trust that has probably been in place for 100 years or more.I do however see the need of the guys who drive round in their 4 x 4s hoovering up permissions to have written permissions.I am a simple country soul who sticks to his own patch,as I walk round hedges,trees ,holes & ponds,they hold memories not just mine but some passed on to me by my family.

 

 

Billy

[markbivvy]

.I do however see the need of the guys who drive round in their 4 x 4s hoovering up permissions to have written permissions.

knowing farmers like i do billy, i dont think some are hoovering up quite so much as they would have us think.

[shoot57]

enjoyed this topic , lots of different viewpoints as usual.....so just before i go out foxing can i just ask one more question , Who do you all think is going to win Strictly Come Dancing

[pavman]

What a load of utter ********

 

I think some people have gone the same way as this country in its infatuation with rules regs and everything pc

 

If someone thinks i am a"risky or dodgy shot" because i havent got a piece of paper in my pocket, i would think its their mental state that needs looking at not mine !!

 

If a farmer asks me to come and shoot a fox(which they often do)you dont say "can i have that in writing".In the event that the police do get involved it would be better if it was in writing but not having it isnt the end of the world you are making it out to be

 

BB

 

Its sounds like you and others are not aware of laws such as the ground game act?

 

1. Occupier to have a right inseparable from his occupation to kill ground game concurrently with any other person entitled to kill the same on land in his occupation. Every occupier of land shall have, as incident to and inseparable from his occupation of the land, the right to kill and take ground game thereon, concurrently with any other person who may be entitled to kill and take ground game on the same land: Provided that the right conferred on the occupier by this section shall be subject to the following limitations:

 

[F1 (1) The occupier shall kill and take ground game only by himself or by persons duly authorised by him in writing:

c)Every person so authorised by the occupier, on demand by any person having a concurrent right to take and kill the ground game on the land or any person authorised by him in writing to make such demand, shall produce to the person so demanding the document by which he is authorised, and in default he shall not be deemed to be an authorised person.]

 

 

In others words if you dont have a written permission for Rabbits and Hares you may find yourself in trouble,,,,,,,,,poke two fingers if you like......

 

 

However in the case of an Anti problem which we have in our area this is just the sort of thing they will seek to exploit, if you think thats a load of Utter..... I refer to my former quote,,,,,you may be taking chances!

Edited December 18, 2008 by pavman

[Blackbart]

That is reffering to another person who has shooting rights !!

 

"Any person who has concurrent right to take and kill ground game"

 

 

It may be the same for the police but the point i am making is it would be very unlikely that a farmer would lie to the police if asked if you had his permission would he ?

[pavman]

That is reffering to another person who has shooting rights !!

 

"Any person who has concurrent right to take and kill ground game"

 

 

It may be the same for the police but the point i am making is it would be very unlikely that a farmer would lie to the police if asked if you had his permission would he ?

 

OK lets look again, it says,,,

 

[F1 (1) The occupier shall kill and take ground game only by himself or by persons duly authorised by him in writing:

 

In other words you have to have written permission to shoot ground game unless you own the land!

 

I am not trying to win any points etc, just trying to circulate and discuss the fact that you really should get written permission for all your shooting if you can, because at some point (some smart **** Anti with a good Lawer) you may wish you had!

 

This type of Law may have its roots in trying to stop poaching (need for written permission) but its still on the books

Edited December 18, 2008 by pavman

[Blackbart]

I can see what it says pav but the whole thing is about, say a tennant farmer and land owner.It would be ideal to have written permission for everything but that isnt practical.I am not sure its a legal requirement as how many times have you seen in the shooting press...armed response unit came but everything was cleared up with a phone call to the farmer.So verbal seems good enough for the police.

[Highlander]

I had occassion to get police to phone farmer who said he didn't allow rifles on his land luckily the police saw the funny side of it when his daughter (who runs the place) pointed out that he was going somewhat senile. It was she who'd signed my WRITTEN permission in any event.

 

Do what you will about it but if it's only verbal one day you may regret it, BIG TIME.

[anser2]

I was talking to one of the farmers ( also a friend ) who I shoot pigeons for at the moment about written permission. He said if I wanted it in writing then he becomes liable if there is an accident so he would want to charge me for the shooting.

 

At the moment I he gives me a 1000 plus shells a year to shoot the pigeons with and except for game shooting days I have the run of 3 of his farms with verbal permission. I am also the only pigeon shooter on the ground so there is no problem with anyone else setting up on the fields I planed to shoot. So I am more than happy with the present situation.

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Many moons ago a shooting friend of mine got involved in an incident, and when the police became involved the farmer said that he had not given permission to my friend. This, as you would expect, resulted in loads of aggro.

 

Rightly or wrongly I will not go onto any land without written permission - I use the phrase "It's a legal requirement", even though I know it is not strictly correct.

 

I keep copies of all my permissions and maps of the land in my car, and this has proved useful in the past to reassure new opportunities that I am legit, and know what I am doing.

 

I have had one refusal in giving me written permission, and walked away.

 

Now all the above refers to rifle shooting only, and my permits are worded to the effect that I have permission to shoot at night. It may not be a legal requirement, but I am pretty sure that if I were to be stopped at night by a curious policeman it would help, and prevent suspicions being raised even further.

 

Another friend of mine ended up being pin pointed by a swat squad, and his written permits did ease the situation after he had been told to put his gun down or else... The alarm had been raised by a member of Joe Public with the magic phrase of "Armed men on a neighbours property".

 

Everyone to to their own, but I will not lamp at night without written permission.

 

Don