955i Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Slow day at work today so I spent the afternoon on a reminder session of legislation. I know people use semi's for hunting but I came across this in the WCA and to me it reads as if it is illegal to use them. This specific section is with regards to birds (Section 5.c.II.) but a later section uses the same terminology for all wildlife. So am I reading it right or am I missing something? Doc1.doc Edited January 5, 2009 by 955i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I dont know what to make of that really? Im pretty sure its legal to shoot wildfowl for example with a semiauto provided the gun holds maximum of 3 cartridges so perhaps this is what it means??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I dont know what to make of that really? Im pretty sure its legal to shoot wildfowl for example with a semiauto provided the gun holds maximum of 3 cartridges so perhaps this is what it means??? Possibly, but it seems odd if that is the case that it specifies 'any automatic or semi-automatic'. You would expect a footnote or something giving the exceptions to the rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 you sure theres not another part there somewhere? funny i do remember reading something like this before, but look at the amount of semi's aimed at hunting, if it was illegal someone would have noticed before still, theres another reason to go for a p/a... :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I thought i might aswell throw my hat in the ring, this is the kind of thread that normally spirals out of control with people arguing this way and that, which just goes to show how needlessly complicated our firearms law is! I'm not sure which document you have got this from but it looks and reads pretty old. As far as i'm aware the current document(s) you need to look at/comply with are the General Licenses from Natural England when it comes to trapping/shooting wildbirds etc. You can definately take wildfowl and game with semi's (as long as they're Section 2 i.e. 2+1 cartridges) but you can also shoot pest species with Section 1 shotguns. (i.e. FAC shotguns) I would think that 5cIII refers to FIREARMS (i.e. a rifle or Section 1 shotgun) and not to a Section 2 SHOTGUN, but i think that is an out of date document. And then the fight started . . . . . Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I'm not sure which document you have got this from but it looks and reads pretty old. Its from the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 (as amended) and is still very much a legal document and is in fact the one (along with the CRoW Act and the Natural Habitats Regulations) that Natural England base their licensing laws on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yep just read it. If you have a look at 2002 Police Guidance to Firearms in Chapter 14 it makes it a bit easier to understand. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yep just read it. If you have a look at 2002 Police Guidance to Firearms in Chapter 14 it makes it a bit easier to understand. Mark Can't get the link to work :o Will have a look online for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hmmm, no idea why thats not working, it works outside of PW?? If you just type '2002 firearms police guidance' into a search engine it should bring it up Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 or read the pinned topics http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=23049 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJUK Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yep just read it. If you have a look at 2002 Police Guidance to Firearms in Chapter 14 it makes it a bit easier to understand. Mark Hi mate, You've linked to 'http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=0' Cheers, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussman Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 http://www.basc.org.uk/media/semi-autos___vermin_control.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 i would imagine that it is an appendix to another chapter of the law, where wild birds are classed as blackbirds, etc, whereas we are thinking about gamebirds and duck etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio...pdf?view=Binary. go to page 86. this defines game birds ducks and geese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 The 1981 Act also prohibits the use of automatic and semi-automatic weapons (those with a magazine which is capable of holding more than two rounds, as defined in the EC Wild Birds Directive (79/409/EEC)) against certain wild animals or birds except under a licence issued by DEFRA or the Scottish Executive Environment and Rural Affairs Department (SEERAD). The term semiautomatic, for the purposes of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, includes pumpaction shot guns or rifles. Game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 The 1981 Act also prohibits the use ofautomatic and semi-automatic weapons (those with a magazine which is capable of holding more than two rounds, as defined in the EC Wild Birds Directive (79/409/EEC)) against certain wild animals or birds except under a licence issued by DEFRA or the Scottish Executive Environment and Rural Affairs Department (SEERAD). The term semiautomatic, for the purposes of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, includes pumpaction shot guns or rifles. Game Thanks Mark So it would seem my initial thought was correct as this also doesn't specify any exceptions and a semi holds at least 3 if I'm not mistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Thanks Mark So it would seem my initial thought was correct as this also doesn't specify any exceptions and a semi holds at least 3 if I'm not mistaken but only 2 in the mag. some fac shotguns hold 8 but they are legal. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...=44317&st=0 Edited January 5, 2009 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 some fac shotguns hold 8 but they are legal. Yeah, I don't doubt the legality of the guns themselves. Just finding it a bit difficult to sift out whether they are legal for hunting as it appears they wouldn't be. Funny thing is, if it hadn't been for taking up the hobby and this forum, I'd have skimmed straight over that as it doesn't have any real bearing on my work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Slow day at work today so I spent the afternoon on a reminder session of legislation. I know people use semi's for hunting but I came across this in the WCA and to me it reads as if it is illegal to use them. This specific section is with regards to birds (Section 5.c.II.) but a later section uses the same terminology for all wildlife. So am I reading it right or am I missing something? jus had a look at your link and the document is missing a couple of words. it should read with any automatic or semi automatic WITH A 2 OR MORE MAGAZINE CAPACITY. dont know why its missing as every other doc on the internet has in in its entirety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Here is a link from the Joint Nature Conservancy Council website which has it worded the same way JNCC Another from the governments Office of Public Sector Information, again worded the same OPSI Haven't seen one yet that makes the specifications that you claim I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Here is a link from the Joint Nature Conservancy Council website which has it worded the same way JNCC Another from the governments Office of Public Sector Information, again worded the same OPSI Haven't seen one yet that makes the specifications that you claim I'm afraid. then phone your firearms department and ask them. if you have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) if you have one. What do you mean if I have one. Derbyshire does indeed have one, but the law seems to be there in black and white and I was just enquiring as to whether it meant what I thought it did in this instance. I'll assume no-one here really knows and ask the Firearms Dept tomorrow. Would appreciate a link to the section you posted earlier which specified the magazine size if possible so i can compare the two documents. Edited January 5, 2009 by 955i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I'll assume no-one here really knows only you by the looks of things. do you thing all the people on here who use semi,s, do it with knowing they will loose there ticket if caught shooting birds. why do the guns shops sell so many to shooters or all they all doing clays. did you read this thread. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...=44317&st=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 http://www.basc.org.uk/media/semi-autos___vermin_control.pdf if this is not enough, then you are a troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 only you by the looks of things. If I knew I wouldn't have asked now would I? I don't know why you have taken it upon yourself to start making this argumentative as it was only a chance reading of a document that raised the question in the first place. I hadn't read the thread you linked to because I am not keeping or considering getting that type of gun so it would have had no interest to me. No offence to the guy who posted in there, but if I am going to intepret the information, I believe it would be best to take the official government document than something that has been typed on a forum. He may be right, but I haven't seen the WCA documented anywhere that mentions the magazine size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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