leaseone Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have used the search function and found nothing, does that mean it has not been discussed? I only ask as my FLO rang this morning and said had I though of the Mach2 instead of the HMR! cos we would issue that now. Surrey so dont ask! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Mach2 is a .22lr stinger case necked down to .17. I've never shot one but most people I have talked to seem to think they are a waste of time. I wouldn't be pushed into it. Why can't you have a .17HMR now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Surrey feel that the HMR is such a fast round that it may not be safe , I have permission on 4 farms 2 of which are cleared up to 243 but '2 others are only cleared for .22, so we would prefer you to have a .17mach2 ' I have asked them to go and check with their own ballistics department so we shall see. but I would like to be prepeared if they say NO to the HMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 speed of the round just makes it safer, faster its going the more its going to fragment on impact rather than bounce, bet they don't have a ballistics dept flashy as it sounds. It'll just be a new FEO wh doesn't know his bottom from his elbow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Surrey FAD is most likely your problem...as you've guessed. Try explaining that the .17HMR round is a 'safer' round as it isn't going to bounce like .22 will and fragments on impact. Quite frankly the 'safety' aspect of the .17HMR or the Mach2 have little between them but don't be pushed into the Mach2 as you'd probably be better off with a .22. If he won't budge try getting BASC to have a word with him only check with BASC first what their current views are because a mate of mine had some jerk at HQ trying to tell him the .22 round was far safer. It isn't! Also don't forget the mod; you NEED it as a H&S issue for your hearing. We're fortunate to be one of the few countries (in the world) that licence mods because plod doesn't want a whole bunch of claims from Deaf Jeffs in 25 years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 He has already said that the .22 inc mod is not a problem, only the HMR , and if I went for the mach2 he would post my Cert Friday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 He has already said that the .22 inc mod is not a problem, only the HMR , and if I went for the mach2 he would post my Cert Friday there having your pants down. stick to your guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Don't let him bully you. You'll be sorry if you buy the Mach2 Bye the way if the ground is cleared up to .22 then it's OK for the .17HMR as is (obviously) the ground that's cleared for .243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) When I had my first land check I wasn't anywhere near as clued up as I am now. One thing I do remember though is that it was cleared for HMR in places that he said a .22lr wouldn't be good. According to my guy the HMR is the next safest bet to the spud gun and you can fire it almost anywhere as long as you have a small excuse for a backstop! I have only ever had one HMR round ricochet. It was in a very large open area that was dead flat. I shot at a crow from prone at around 150m and missed, held over too much and missed above his head. I wouldn't have taken the shot if the field was smaller, but there was no way it left the boundry of the land and I could clearly see there was nobody around. In 99.9% of shooting situations it would have been considered an unthinkable shot with a rifle. Don't put up with their messing about. The HMR is a great deal safer than a .22lr. The high velocity has a lot to do with that! I will shoot my HMR almost anywhere now I'm open and a lot of the ground I have is quite flat. The .22lr rarely goes out because if I'm honest I'm too scared to shoot it without a huge soft bank behind the target! Edited January 12, 2009 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 When I had my first land check I wasn't anywhere near as clued up as I am now. One thing I do remember though is that it was cleared for HMR in places that he said a .22lr wouldn't be good. According to my guy the HMR is the next safest bet to the spud gun and you can fire it almost anywhere as long as you have a small excuse for a backstop! I have only ever had one HMR round ricochet. It was in a very large open area that was dead flat. I shot at a crow from prone at around 150m and missed, held over too much and missed above his head. I wouldn't have taken the shot if the field was smaller, but there was no way it left the boundry of the land and I could clearly see there was nobody around. In 99.9% of shooting situations it would have been considered an unthinkable shot with a rifle. Don't put up with their messing about. The HMR is a great deal safer than a .22lr. The high velocity has a lot to do with that! I will shoot my HMR almost anywhere now I'm open and a lot of the ground I have is quite flat. The .22lr rarely goes out because if I'm honest I'm too scared to shoot it without a huge soft bank behind the target! Wot he said 'cos it's a very well put argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 There,s one here.. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...ic=66236&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sometimes wonder if there is a lack of training or knowledge with regard to some FEOs. The HMR is a MUCH safer round when it comes to ricochets. On hard ground (Or much of the time actually) .22lr is a dangerously bouncy round. I've even heard .22s zing off fully grown wheat fields. In the time i've been shooting Hmr, i've had maybe 2 audible ricochets. I'd say there's little difference between the hmr and mach2 apart from a bit of extra legs on the hmr, and as already mentioned, the added frangibility of the hmr's faster speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsportshooter Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm really not sure where the FEO is comming from here - Especially when you look at the figures below the HM2 round is only a little down on Velocity and energy over the HMR. Considering the HMR takes a straighter path to the target, droping nearly half as much as the .17 HM2 you are much more likely to hit what you aim at. However the HM2 is up and the HMR is way up on .22lr for energy, which could be the reason your FEO is suggesting the former calibre. The fact that you have two permissions cleared for .243 should really negate the issues the FEO has and you should be granted the calibre. A main consideration for you would be the availability and cost of ammo - HMR is relatively cheap (around £10.50 for 50) - I have no idea what HM2 costs as I cant find anyone that stocks it...... Have a good chat with the FEO and try and get them to agree to HMR - it is in your interests Figures for fun .17 HM2 17 GR V-MAX 83177 Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs) Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd 2100/166 1530/88 1134/49 Trajectory (inches) Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd -1.5 0.0 -14.0 17 HMR 17 GR V-MAX 83170 Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs) Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd 2550/245 1901/136 1378/72 - - - Trajectory (inches) Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd -1.5 0.0 -8.5 - - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) if you have 2 farms that are cleared for up to 243 then he cannot refuse you an grounds of 17 being too fast, dont know exactly how fast a 243 is but faster than a 17 i am sure. Edited January 12, 2009 by peck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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