Jonno243 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Maybe just as well. Perhaps i treat my dogs wrong, but i don't think so. I'm with dangerzone and magman on this. It wasn't that long ago on the Kill It, Cook It...... thread that the animal-rights-terrorists were getting slated for assigning human traits and emotions to bunnies / stags / birds etc, now we are saying that dogs do have these emotions? Get a grip. As dangerzone said dogs follow instinct. I have twice had to carry out this unpleasant task on livestock killers and I did not like it. However, it was absolutely necessary and if required I will do it again. I am sorry for your loss mate, but you need to look closely at your kennel security arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 " I would if shown that they were at fault deal with it though." How would you deal with it? How would you stop them doing it again? Have you ever had a dog yuo own worry livestock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Sorry, double tap........oops!!! Edited January 25, 2009 by Dangerzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Jonno sums up my feelings, it is an unpleasant task shoot livestock killers and I did not like it either. However, it was/sometimes is absolutely necessary and if required I will do it again too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 You would nt expect to shoot a dog that had legged it in front of a car If it caused a death to a human mate one way or another it would lead to the same fate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I've yet to read the whole thread but will add my two pence worth now or I'll forget, the law which covers farmers to shoot dogs is only for cattle, not poultry, this is the first point to bring forward. Going to read some more now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 "....the law which covers farmers to shoot dogs is only for cattle, not poultry,......" Not cattle either, LIVESTOCK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek.snr Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 does sound a bit iffy as whats the first thing you would reach for ,dog attacking chickens running around ,got to be heavy shot in the shotgun ,not a 22-250, or do i think differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 " I would if shown that they were at fault deal with it though." How would you deal with it? How would you stop them doing it again? Have you ever had a dog yuo own worry livestock? No pal i have not had to deal with it, maybe i am lucky but i would not deal with it by turning my gun on my dogs. AS i have said he is disputing that his dog has done it and yep i know that's what all dogs owners who's dogs have just attacked livestock say but as far as i am concerned that's because they care about their dog. If the dog was shown to have done it then yep its the owners responsibility to be liable and yep my dogs would not get the chance to do it again but that don't mean they would be shot by me. And as for saying that dog owners are assigning the same emotions to our dogs as animal rights are assigning to rabbits etc what a load of ********. I must be a anti then because i give my dogs a lot of respect and treat them with all the dignity i can for the love and respect they show me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 If it caused a death to a human mate one way or another it would lead to the same fate Maybe but not by a gun there and then. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancashireunter Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Some strong opinions here and no wonder, we see our dogs as human and one of the family so I would be gutted and prob want to take out my anger on the guy, even more so as there isnt any evidence that it was worrying stock. BUT as someone who has worked on large sheep farms close to large towns and so have alot of experience of stock worrying I can see the other side of the argument. You cannot contain a stock worrier. Scare it off and it goes and kills elsewhere and will ALWAYS come back to where it killed before. 'Scare it off and follow it home' Get real youve no chance! We would only shoot a dog SEEN killing stock and Ive seen some horrible sights of dead and injurd stock especially at lambing time. After a dog is shot then it has to be reported to the police, the stock is always kept as proof and a bill for the stock, the bullets and staffs time is always sent to the dogs owner. Court procedings usually start and the the owner is forced to pay. As for dogs being more important than stock , I see owners of stock killers as the same as the people who steal my mole traps or poach a keepers birds, ie. irresponsibly taking peoples livelyhood. This is a terrible case and it seems wrong your dog was shot by a trigger happy farmer if it wasnt worrying stock. But you still havnt explained how it got out of the kennel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyoge Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 what troubles me about this case is that he does not sound like a very capable shot...he cannot kill something that big with one shot?...shouldnt own any form of gun if you ask me!...and the broken leg...lets be honest here...he sounds like a bully and a coward. And yes i do get emotional and protective about my dogs...they are always loyal and would protect me to the death...so as i previously said...they deserve a bit of respect, no matter what the law says...it's a shame you dont make the most of your dogs Dangerzone, then maybe you would have more respect for what magnificent animals they are...and as for this living in the country ****...got nothing to do with it...could have fired some shots in the air as previously said...or even better fetch some meat and catch dog then take down to police station abd ask to warn owner not to let it happen again...this scumbag is just a cruel coward who wanted to make a statement by breaking the leg, then shooting twice to show just what a big man he is...total loser if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancashireunter Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Im a capable shot but when chasing stock worriers its not like shooting off a rest at a stationary target, iv shot from the back of a quad alot of times at a moving taget. Again im speaking in general aboutproven stock killers and not about the case in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 "....the law which covers farmers to shoot dogs is only for cattle, not poultry,......" Not cattle either, LIVESTOCK. My apologies, I have always understood the act not to cover poultry, but on further inspection it does, pheasant and partridge too ( whilst penned ) http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1971/pdf/u...19710022_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 That's two clowns who have said, "....could have fired some shots in the air..." Did you not read that he had a 22-250??? What goes up, must come down..... "it's a shame you dont make the most of your dogs Dangerzone, then maybe you would have more respect for what magnificent animals they are..." Dogs cannot be aloud to kill livestock, once they have done it there is only one cure!!! Both of my own dogs that I have shot were working collies, one for killing sheep when it escaped at night, the other was a trained collie on the first day we had it for biting me when I was 12, When we phoned the breeder/trainer he said "shoot it and I'll tear the cheque up" (dident like children we were later told, poor training by the breeder I would say). I have never had to shoot any of my gundogs and hope I never have to.......but if the need arises...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dogs cannot be aloud to kill livestock, once they have done it there is only one cure!!! Both of my own dogs that I have shot were working collies, one for killing sheep when it escaped at night, the other was a trained collie on the first day we had it for biting me when I was 12, When we phoned the breeder/trainer he said "shoot it and I'll tear the cheque up" (dident like children we were later told, poor training by the breeder I would say). I agree dogs cant be allowed to worry livestock and would have no argument with any farmer that shot a dog should they be able to show the dog was. But a trained collie that you shot 12 years old for biting you, oh well at least the cheque was nt cashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyoge Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 That's two clowns who have said, "....could have fired some shots in the air..." Did you not read that he had a 22-250??? What goes up, must come down..... "it's a shame you dont make the most of your dogs Dangerzone, then maybe you would have more respect for what magnificent animals they are..." Dogs cannot be aloud to kill livestock, once they have done it there is only one cure!!! Both of my own dogs that I have shot were working collies, one for killing sheep when it escaped at night, the other was a trained collie on the first day we had it for biting me when I was 12, When we phoned the breeder/trainer he said "shoot it and I'll tear the cheque up" (dident like children we were later told, poor training by the breeder I would say). I have never had to shoot any of my gundogs and hope I never have to.......but if the need arises...... in both instances the dogs were yours and you had a pretty good reason...although it would have been an alternative to find a good home without livestock for the collie who got out at night? the case in question could have been avoided and we all know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Get a grip, just as well you live in Essex and not in the country!??! I love my dogs as much as any man, but if they worry livestock i'll shoot them myself( as I have done before) for I will have only myself to blame for letting them do so. Dogs are NOT human, they are many things that a human cannot be, but not human. They follow instinct not law May I suggest that you take a look at a map before making stupid bloody remarks like that. I live in Essex and it is a bloody sight nearer the country than Glasgow. And if you shot a dog because it bit you on the first day you had it you are a bigger ******* then I had you down for. Very easy to always blame someone else isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigger1 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 i agrre totally with the law about killing dogs worrying livestock if he had a load of dead animals and i had a cleanly killed dog fair enough.. but what gets me is there was no evidenvce of them killing his chickens... no blood on the other dog.. 2 lurchers ripping apart 3 chickens will make a bit of a mess. plus we as shooters have a right to see that our quarry is despatched cleanly that includes rabbits, rats and even dogs. as to the dogs getting out i have no explanation i shut the door at 7 and came home at half 10 when the door was open and no dogs. what i really cant understand is why her legs were broke?? i think she coward down which is what she done when bein shouted at and he gave her a kick.. or if he stamped and her once blowing a hole in her shoulder and though her face then he needs to be locked up under the mental health act.. if i wrote on here that i had been out and decoyed and shot 20 pigeons then proceded to ran around stamping on them all you'd no doubt think i had a screw loose???!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyoge Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 i agrre totally with the law about killing dogs worrying livestock if he had a load of dead animals and i had a cleanly killed dog fair enough..but what gets me is there was no evidenvce of them killing his chickens... no blood on the other dog.. 2 lurchers ripping apart 3 chickens will make a bit of a mess. plus we as shooters have a right to see that our quarry is despatched cleanly that includes rabbits, rats and even dogs. as to the dogs getting out i have no explanation i shut the door at 7 and came home at half 10 when the door was open and no dogs. what i really cant understand is why her legs were broke?? i think she coward down which is what she done when bein shouted at and he gave her a kick.. or if he stamped and her once blowing a hole in her shoulder and though her face then he needs to be locked up under the mental health act.. if i wrote on here that i had been out and decoyed and shot 20 pigeons then proceded to ran around stamping on them all you'd no doubt think i had a screw loose???!!! really do sympathise with you...he is a coward of the first order....some people are just trigger happy and don't have the brains to find alternatives to killing...hope you get yourself a fair result in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sorry trigger, but you seem to be dodging the point, you said you locked the dogs into their kennel.............how did they get out? Secondly, they didn`t need to kill only worry LIVESTOCK. Thirdly you don`t know how far away and whether it was walking etc when shot at, or indeed if it was worrying at the time shot. It is a shame but there again if you relied on the cattle/fowl you would feel different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 "I live in Essex and it is a bloody sight nearer the country than Glasgow." Dont think so, may I suggest that YOU take a look at a map before making stupid bloody remarks like that!??! "And if you shot a dog because it bit you on the first day you had it you are a bigger ****** then I had you down for" Dident just bite me, lest a scar 1/4" from my eye, ran 6 yards or so to do it. Your the ****** who cant work out that I'm a farmer and thus dont live in Glasgow city center..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Perhaps the broken leg was caused by the same bullet? I've seen plenty of chest shot foxy woxy's with a broken back leg That pill and all it's energy has to go somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyoge Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dident just bite me, lest a scar 1/4" from my eye, ran 6 yards or so to do it. Your the W****R who cant work out that I'm a farmer and thus dont live in Glasgow city center..... blimey....wonder why the dog did that?...probably thought they would get in first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonno243 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 No pal i have not had to deal with it, maybe i am lucky but i would not deal with it by turning my gun on my dogs. AS i have said he is disputing that his dog has done it and yep i know that's what all dogs owners who's dogs have just attacked livestock say but as far as i am concerned that's because they care about their dog. If the dog was shown to have done it then yep its the owners responsibility to be liable and yep my dogs would not get the chance to do it again but that don't mean they would be shot by me. And as for saying that dog owners are assigning the same emotions to our dogs as animal rights are assigning to rabbits etc what a load of ********. I must be a anti then because i give my dogs a lot of respect and treat them with all the dignity i can for the love and respect they show me. Chippy, there is a world of difference between assigning human feelings / sentiments to an animal, and respecting an animal. I respect all animals, including the ones I shoot for food / sport. A dog respects its owner on the basis of its evolutionary background as a pack animal, it is showing the respect accorded to the alpha-male of the pack, namely the owner. It does not "love" you in the human sense. For your information, I used to keep dogs. After my last died I could not bring myself to get a replacement because it broke my heart. I will freely admit to having loved that animal; I will not delude myself by assigning that emotion to her. Regarding the highlighted above, once a dog has killed livestock it WILL do so again. There is also the possibility that it may not be a sheep, but rather "Tommy" from down the road or "Sarah" at the swingpark. There is no option but to destroy it, regardless of how distastefull that may be. As I said previously, I have nothing but sympathy for the OP. It is heartbreaking, but if his dog was worrying livestock then it was neccessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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