fullbore Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I have both and must say I take the .17 most nights now due to the odd .22 Richochet which is worrying So far I have not had one with the .17 But it does bash up the meat. But it's ace on the magpies, had a good day on them yesterday, the clever gets sit out of range of the 22, but the 17 puts an end to their japes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Theres no need to doubt Baldrick, if you're shooting rabbits now is the time to get them to be effective as give it a month the crops will be too high to be able to see them and you won't be able to get the numbers. Personally I'd vote for the HMR as a far better first gun, it is a lot safer on the ricochet front. With the .22lr you have a banana trajectory so have to think a lot more with regard to holdover etc this means its far easier to wound. With the HMR generally its point and bang and the rabbit is dead. I've no wish to use one again on our ground I just got sick of lamping on grassland and hearing the round zing off into the distance. As for wind with the HMR I fail to see how the .22lr is better, you still get wind drift and shoot them back to back at the same range and compare results and you'll be surprised. Firstly at the 70 yards or less that you'll be aiming at the HMR is likely to be less affected. So in short if its windy reduce the range you shoot at and keep the long range shooting to still days. Obviously if you stretch the range you will get the little bullet drift but odds are you'll be shooting at twice the effective range of the LR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Okay hers my tuppance worth from what iv seen ( not a FAC holder but waiting for it to arrive throught the post and have a rifle on hold) In either calibre you will have to get used to aiming off for some shots, .22 - due to tradgectory and HMR becase of wind. HMR is more expensive but cheaper shooting than clay shooting is. 22 is cheapest but richocetts are far more regular. Both are great rounds and for me in a simlar position to you the deciding factor was the ground over which i shoot. ( airfeild which another shooter has found to be a richocett heaven with .22) I would say .22 to any newby in bolt action as its a cheap simple effective setup. . . . . . aslong as ricochetts arent a worry for you. HMRs are great and both should be used for head shots only in my opinion and by doing that meat damage isnt an issue. Althought there are reports of HMR ricocetts they arent anywhere near as often reported as with the .22. I to will get both eventually, esp if i get more permissions. And when you said "which one first" am guessing you will get both eventually like me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 with the HMR it depends shot wise. If you body shoot you have a larger target area and the round packs enough power for instant lights out. Ok you damage meat but how much meat is at the front end! We body shoot generally as it is pest control and it is far more guaranteed and allows for user error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...c=82263&hl= Alex just one of interest here for you, this post shows what appears to be 20 + bunnys from a single short session ! On the right size ground with the right population and being as proactive as you are i cant see why your bag should be questioned, esp from over the net buy someone who doesnt know your land etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnovember Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 ur takeing my oppionions a little personal there m8 at least i wasnt rude in mine like you were too me i find it more beliveable too shoot a bunny at 306 yards than shooting 1800 in 3 months and as far as retracting what you called me not good enough a apologie is more too suit lets face it you would not have called me a liar too my face would you 1800 rabbits in 3 months? I've seen farmers shoot more than that in 2 months. Do you know how much land Baldrick even has? Lots of land and lots of crops = thousands of rabbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytie Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) I like both, lots! And can see the point of both rounds. But I have asked for a .17HMR variation for my fac. Playing with a friends .17 we found that if you use the gamepoint, rather than ballistic tips, there is lots less meat damage! Mind you I tried a hornet the other night, again, and I could easily waver. Not silly on the bunnys and it dropped a nosy fox like a sack of s---. It was moderated too, and very quiet. Perhaps a better all rounder......mmmmmmm....... not sure. No, no!!!!!!!!! You've all got me at it now Just for the bunnys, not bothered about selling them, buy the .17HMR. I think? ft PS anyone around the south worcs north gloucs region with ferreted or head shot bunnys I know a man who wants lots, he was paying a £1.00 a piece for full growns. PM me for his number. Edited March 16, 2009 by flytie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 1800 rabbits in 3 months? I've seen farmers shoot more than that in 2 months. Do you know how much land Baldrick even has? Lots of land and lots of crops = thousands of rabbits. Not true ! Lots of land does'nt = lots of rabbits. I dont know how much land Badrick has, but i have almost 5000 acres and it is over 90% crops and i could shoot every rabbit on it and still not make 100. As for 17 or 22 ? The 22 is like lobbing a brick and the 17 is like throwing a dart ! The 22 will bounce off anything and very often does. I would opt for the 17 every time,and my 22 has not seen the outside of the cabinet for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feaks Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Get a Mach 2- the best of both worlds ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Not true ! Lots of land does'nt = lots of rabbits. I dont know how much land Badrick has, but i have almost 5000 acres and it is over 90% crops and i could shoot every rabbit on it and still not make 100. Blackbart, we own and farm more croppable acres than that. We're also not growing just combinable crops: if you think emerging wheat is appealing to a rabbit, think how enticing a lettuce looks. I could eradicate every rabbit within our boundaries, but as you know, rabbits do not respect boundaries. A breeding pair of rabbits also produces 95 offspring per year, according to Farmers Weekly. And with Natural England's decision not to uphold the right to claim against neighbouring landowners for rabbit damage stemming from outside your boundary, we have to be increasingly zealous. We are also struggling to remedy the damage following the laying of a pipeline across the land, during which the utility firm were very late reinstating the rabbit fencing. The result. I doubt that my explanation, talking as both the bloke pulling the trigger and the farmer, will be sufficient to allay sniperfox36's concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I wouldn't worry about it. You've got nothing to prove here (not to anyone that matters anyway). The "how can you shoot .6 of a Rabbit" comment made me laugh, it shows what level of initiative you're talking to and you have no chance of winning with common sense! I really like the HMR, don't like .22lr at all. It's all down to the number of ricochets I had with mine. I took it out in the field half a dozen times and after that it was left in the cabinet and the HMR went out. I've put my HMR on the back burner for now due to my new Hornet arriving. It's great for Foxes out to HMR bunny ranges and as stated above isn't that noisy. That's for another topic though, for a newbie to shooting the HMR is as safe as you can get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Blackbart, we own and farm more croppable acres than that. We're also not growing just combinable crops: if you think emerging wheat is appealing to a rabbit, think how enticing a lettuce looks. I could eradicate every rabbit within our boundaries, but as you know, rabbits do not respect boundaries. A breeding pair of rabbits also produces 95 offspring per year, according to Farmers Weekly. And with Natural England's decision not to uphold the right to claim against neighbouring landowners for rabbit damage stemming from outside your boundary, we have to be increasingly zealous. We are also struggling to remedy the damage following the laying of a pipeline across the land, during which the utility firm were very late reinstating the rabbit fencing. The result. I doubt that my explanation, talking as both the bloke pulling the trigger and the farmer, will be sufficient to allay sniperfox36's concerns. I was not having a go at you baldrick,just at the assumption that more land = more rabbits. I wish i had more rabbits about the place.The farmer isnt bothered about them because there isnt enough to bother about and the ones that are about the place are mainly in grass fields.I have just come in from lamping and seen about 15 rabbits all night. BUT..... i did nail another 3 foxes(2 dogs and a vixen)so it was a good night.31 so far this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Ive met baldrick and hes a gent, if he says thats how many rabbits he shoots then I believe him, why would you even doubt it? I know somone who filled an 6 yard skip in one night (300+) on a golf course so 30 a night on a huge acerage is easily achieved!! I also have one small farm that i shoot that is surrounded by national trust land, as soon as you think youve won and the numbers have been depleted the ******* move in from next door again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 The issue seems to be comparing .22 and .17 rimfires when they are quite different. The .22 comes into it's own for quiet, cheap close to medium range work. 17's territory is when noise isn't an issue and/or you need to reach out a bit further. As for .22's ricochet off anything and everything, yes they do ricochet, all bullets can and do ricochet - but subs do it more than most. My opinion is that Wincheter's do it less then Eley's as they have a larger hollowpoint, but that is only my opinion. This wasn't intended as a Myth busting excersize, but on a bunnyless shooting trip recently I got bored and shot a golf ball instead. The grass and golf ball were both wet, and this was shot at about 30 yards I guess. You can see it was hit quartering, so you would reasonably expect under those conditions that the bullet to skim off it I opened it up at home and found the bullet inside - make your own minds up about that one . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 conclusion is the bullet was close to you so had enough power to penetrate the ball, I've had .22lr's ricochet after going through a rabbits head at close range its just not nice and I just don't like it. Fine if you're plinking in areas with good backstops but when you have to look for a backstop behind your backstop to stop a bouncing bullet its just not fun. With Baldricks average per day don't forget if you've enough rabbits you can get 100 plus a night if the land supports the numbers. As BB says not all land does and has a huge number of variables even down to the lands drainage etc as to whether they can burrow well. The other thing I'd say BB is the number of foxes you've got is probably also keeping the numbers down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 My local estate gamekeeper shot a confirmed tally of 6240 in one 12 month period. On the right ground extreme numbers can be taken, what most people dont realize is that this is the key part together with access to the land being another. Most modern farmers nowadays plough right up to the ditch or hedgerow.. Long gone is the set aside so lost is also valuable vehicle access around the field perimeters. I have a total of 400 acres on one farm alone which cannot be shot as there is no vehicle access. Bit of a stalemate as the farmer won't allow vehicles even on the tramlines so what do you do? I ain't yomping it or buying a quad for that sole purpose, but if you suggest a leaving a track the width of a motor to allow access for the effective control rabbits of that area it is met with shock & horror!! On another note I totally agree with Baldrick, I mix with serious controllers who do it as part of there living and are out everynight and not one of them uses a .17....... Quite frankly the majority of us on here are only playing at pest control, and that includes me for that matter. What I do know is that if the whole populace had to use a .17 all the time for rabbit control, you would soon find the return of the land based warrener who only had ferrets,snares,drop boxes and poison at his disposal due to the cost. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Quite frankly the majority of us on here are only playing at pest control, and that includes me for that matter. What I do know is that if the whole populace had to use a .17 all the time for rabbit control, you would soon find the return of the land based warrener who only had ferrets,snares,drop boxes and poison at his disposal due to the cost. Regards I don't agree why does everyone think the 17 is cost prohibitive, hell the whole shooting game is cost prohibitive if you want to go down that road, shotgun shooting is especially costly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) how do you tally that with using a shotgun for rabbit control? costs are very very similar if not more than using the HMR as for not driving round well its simple the control doesn't get done as well. However if you go out in the right weather and the right crop growth stage and use tramlines you don't do any damage. We were out in the pick up last night lamping and conditions couldn't have been better Edited March 17, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 how do you tally that with using a shotgun for rabbit control? costs are very very similar if not more than using the HMR And the rabbit shot with the 17 is preferable for eating or selling purposes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 conclusion is the bullet was close to you so had enough power to penetrate the ball, I've had .22lr's ricochet after going through a rabbits head at close range its just not nice and I just don't like it. Fine if you're plinking in areas with good backstops but when you have to look for a backstop behind your backstop to stop a bouncing bullet its just not fun. With Baldricks average per day don't forget if you've enough rabbits you can get 100 plus a night if the land supports the numbers. As BB says not all land does and has a huge number of variables even down to the lands drainage etc as to whether they can burrow well. The other thing I'd say BB is the number of foxes you've got is probably also keeping the numbers down I would say the majority of foxes that i shoot are foxes that move in to the area to replace the ones i have shot and i was just saying last night "where do they keep coming from ?" The rabbit population on the land has never been big and i have shot there for 14 years.I only shoot a couple every now and then but their numbers dont seem to increase,on the other hand i do have a lot of hares,deer,foxes,pheasants,pigeons,ducks so the lack of rabbits isnt such a hardship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnovember Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I was not having a go at you baldrick,just at the assumption that more land = more rabbits. I wish i had more rabbits about the place.The farmer isnt bothered about them because there isnt enough to bother about and the ones that are about the place are mainly in grass fields.I have just come in from lamping and seen about 15 rabbits all night. BUT..... i did nail another 3 foxes(2 dogs and a vixen)so it was a good night.31 so far this year Well, there are plenty of rabbits in the countryside. So therefore, more land does equal more rabbits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnovember Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Baldrick, What do you do with all the rabbits? Sell them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 pest control so probably left where they are, its one of the only ways to shoot loads as getting out to retrieve rabbits all the time doesn't help with scaring other rabbits in the same field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Baldrick, What do you do with all the rabbits? Sell them? I've had lots of people ask me this over the last few days. The answer is no different from most other Shots' responses. We sell, eat or give away all that we can. The ones that are unsuitable for the plate are left as corvid and/or fox bait, or used as dog food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnovember Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've had lots of people ask me this over the last few days. The answer is no different from most other Shots' responses. We sell, eat or give away all that we can. The ones that are unsuitable for the plate are left as corvid and/or fox bait, or used as dog food. I have a large premision that is rabbit infested, and I'm wondering what I'm going to do with all the shot rabbits. I don't know of any game dealers local to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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