Determining lead

[Peter De La Mare]

This weekend in particular has taught me that I'm extraordinarily poo at determining lead, or reading rangey/distant targets/birds properly.

 

Is there any procedure or method for working out how much lead a distant clay needs, or is everyone going to ruin my day by saying 'experience' or 'feel'.

 

Any Geometry experts have a method for using speed and trajectory to arrive at a foward allowance figure?

[HW682]

Peter,

as you say it is fairly simple geometry to work out the actual lead required given the velocity and trajectory of the clay and the velocity of the shot.

The difficult part is determining what the velocity/trajectory of the clay is.

The next problem is determining how you perceive the actual lead required.

 

As skeet is quite repeatable, the required leads are well published on the web. You could start there and then try and relate how sporting clays compare to the various skeet stands.

 

HW682 (good at geometry even if I say so myself - but still a beginner at shooting clays)

[Catamong]

Pete,

 

Don't go there Matey, or you'll end up taking a laptop onto the stand before you shoot.

 

With Sporting birds it's all down to experience I'm afraid, but some learn quicker than others, you've only got to look at MC's scores to see that.

 

With skeet & trap it's different of course, as they should, in theory, all be within fixed parameters.

 

Get out there and shoot as many grounds as possible, avoid the biff shoots where everything's on the end of the barrel, and if you miss it once, make sure you see a different lead on the next pair.

 

Cat.

[beretta]

Get out there and shoot as many grounds as possible, avoid the biff shoots where everything's on the end of the barrel, and if you miss it once, make sure you see a different lead on the next pair.

 

Cat.

 

 

[Chard]

Twice as much as you were thinking of giving it :blink:

[Emmsy]

avoid manchester clay shooting, its one of them 'biff' shoots

 

should have come to Longridge on monday, 100 extreme sporting. 81 won

a proper good shoot and at straw bale prices (£25 entry)

[zippo]

Hhhm saw Longridge was on, but remembered 8X10 stands was children reffing on my last two visits there, but still top doller entry fee.... I went to Kegworth!! advertised as "Rescession Buster":blink:?? Still £32.00 Comp, ... £28.00 Birds only!!..How can they advertise such ****?? put in a 82, A class. came nowhere of course!!. methinks some of these ground owners would make excellent Members of Parliment!!.

[Peter De La Mare]

Thanks chaps.

 

I suspected that the answer would be 'experience' though I have had a few good tips via PM. :blink:

[J@mes]

Twice as much as you were thinking of giving it :blink:

 

 

this is what I have started doing when I miss - as I nearly always miss behind when shooting a new target.

 

it works for me!

[Peter De La Mare]

Ya, more often than not though, I'm missing in front! :blink:

[Chard]

Ya, more often than not though, I'm missing in front! :blink:

 

Who told you that?

[chop]

bum belly beak BANG

 

its all in the feel and experience unfortunatly

[christy_stone]

I had another lesson today and i was trying some fast left to right minature clays, i got into the habbit of forgetting the gun and just watching the clay not worring about when to pull the trigger, the more i shot the easier it felt i think part of it is subconscious and if you just relax and focus it comes. Thats what i found anyway.

[MC]

It all depends on the method you use to shoot. I have a copy of John Bidwells shotgun magic DVD and to be honest it is the only one that makes sense to me. You need to be ahead of the bird to hit it so why not start ahead of it?

 

THank you for your kind words Cat, after all I am obviously learning something as I have shot over 9% above my average for the last 3 shoots whereas you are shooting a very poor 3% below yours.

 

Peter,

 

It really is all down to missing plenty and doing the legwork to find out where they are, and then remembering what the sight picture was that you saw.

[clayman]

There is a very simple "trick" that actually works remarkably well.

 

Hold up your hand at arms length with the middle two fingers down and the little and index up.

 

On a straight crosser at typical shooting distance 25-40yds, thats the lead.

 

If the target is quartering, rotate the wrist to the target's line and note the closing lead. For distant or close targets, simply close or open the finger tips a little (remembering this is only to compensate for velocity change in the shot load, parallax does most of the work automatically increasing the sight picture lead as range increases).

 

Most people miss because they under estimate lead, and /or slow the gun when they are ahead closing the lead when the actual shot is taken. Use this method and compare what you see on you fingers with back ground markers and the re-action is usually - you mean THAT MUCH lead!! Also, don't demount or open the gun until you see the clay break. Always watch the clay break ( or not) before removing it from the shoulder. This guarantees a consistent swing-on, often the only problem a person has, ie they are applying correct lead, but already slowing /stopping the gun as they squeeze the trigger.

Edited June 9, 2009 by clayman

[Wookie]

might try that trick today clayman. Thanks!

[Peter De La Mare]

Ya, thanks Jerry, I'll experiment with that as well.

[Ian E]

One question, how do i get the carts into my fingers ?

[Grumpy Old Git]

Hold up your hand at arms length with the middle two fingers down and the little and index up.

 

So, attending Sonisphere at Knebworth would be be good training

 

All interesting stuff, will give it a try tomorrow

[Chard]

So, attending Sonisphere at Knebworth would be be good training

 

All interesting stuff, will give it a try tomorrow

 

I had been thinking along similar lines

[humperdingle]

Gauging distance of lead is very hit or miss - Pardon the pun.

 

It's really about the speed at which you're swinging the gun.

 

Experiment (No seriously) with a water hose, or squeezy washing-up liquid bottle. Watch how the water acts when you let the water out whilst swinging the bottle.

 

That's exactly how the shot comes out of a barrel. In an elongated string.

 

Just make sure for the fast crossers that your muzzle is travelling faster than the clay. Track behind the clay to get the line right, and then accelerate through the target, pull the trigger when you're in front of it, and - importantly - follow through on the swing.

 

Took me a while to get the mechanics, but when I did, I started to hit the advanced targets regularly.

[beretta]

the shot comes out in the cup of the wad as its still under pressure and accelerating. there is an elongation (string) of the shot once out of the barrel but the time it takes to go through 4inches of crossing clay is not a lot.

Edited May 30, 2009 by beretta

[T.C.]

This weekend in particular has taught me that I'm extraordinarily poo at determining lead, or reading rangey/distant targets/birds properly.

 

Is there any procedure or method for working out how much lead a distant clay needs, or is everyone going to ruin my day by saying 'experience' or 'feel'.

 

Any Geometry experts have a method for using speed and trajectory to arrive at a foward allowance figure?

 

Hi Peter . There is actually a formula for lead on the market . You will find it in Peter Blakeley's book "You're Behind It".

If you think of lead as inches at the barrel instead of feet at the target geometry will help you out .

Alternately you could try Gil Ash's approach of "Zone Lead" .

Edited June 4, 2009 by T.C.

[poontang]

Practice is really the only way Pete.

 

And then more practice.

 

Problem is, if you're only shooting competition you're not really getting the chance to practice your problem birds. You come to a stand, see a couple of rangey targets, think 'oh ****, i always have problems with these' and pretty much 'think' yourself into missing. I'd say get to a ground where there are long, rangey birds and bang away for as long as it takes until you're killing them consistantly. Go back as often as possible and keep practicing until you build up a sight picture in your mind. Just my opinion mind, but what i'd do in your situation. I doubt there are any easy fix's unfortunately, just lots of hard work and practice!!

[Chard]

I'd say get to a ground where there are long, rangey birds and bang away for as long as it takes

 

Pete's always banging away at long rangey birds. He'll catch a dose if he's not very careful

Edited May 31, 2009 by Chard