Highlander Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Just seen this (new?) site www.ccc3.org.uk and wonder what if anything BASC (or anyone else for that matter) have to say about it? BTW I don't belong to BASC just for the insurance but to support our sport and they are the best placed orgainsation to do that. Edited June 1, 2009 by Highlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I think it's Clayman's website and enterprise. It does what it says on the tin - cheap insurance and if that's all you want then fill ya boots for a score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) simply the Insurance is a minor part of BASC membership, probably costs them £10 a head or so per year the rest goes to supporting your sport and the BASC machine. As mungler says that is claymans setup which has been mentioned on here before so there is a thread on here, in fact this is the one http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...c=73727&hl= Edited June 1, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstpol Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I find BASC a better option, the benefits are more than just Insurance you have an organisation dedicated to you and the pursuit of your sport, who are very influential, with a wealth of knowledge and expertise that makes the membership fee well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yep it is his site and I think it has been up and running for some time now. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryantidgwell Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 but if money is tight people will always go for the cheaper option what is basc now ? £60 ? i just did not have the money so opted for the NGO was only 30 and a free pen and badge :blink: got to watch the pennies ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Personally I'd like to see two things happen...compulsory shooting insurance and the end of all these 'wannabe' organisations! If BASC were the only organisation and you had to have insurance they'd rake it in which in itself wouldn't be such a good thing BUT by god they'd be a player not only here in the UK but in Europe too. Going for the cheapest insurance option or joining up just for the insurance isn't playing the game...if you're not prepared to support your sport you shouldn't be doing it, go play tiddly winks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 sorry Highlander but there are a couple of problems with that, this insurance probably costs the same from the broker as the BASC cover and so you can't call it cheaper, and as for supporting your sport fair enough but thats another card fed to you by a certain organisation that exists on the back of membership gained by either appealing to your need for insurance and if that doesn't work saying how good they are for your sport. Charities are big business these days and provide a lot of decent jobs for those employed by them but they rely on sales like any conventional business and as they grow an increasing amount of money goes into getting these sales and less on doing what they are meant to do. In this instance no competition would leave them like the BBC license fee we'd all have to pay it whatever and they could set the amount you pay at anything they like. So for your average rough shooter its good that there are a few options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcherboy Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Personally I'd like to see two things happen...compulsory shooting insurance and the end of all these 'wannabe' organisations! If BASC were the only organisation and you had to have insurance they'd rake it in which in itself wouldn't be such a good thing BUT by god they'd be a player not only here in the UK but in Europe too. Going for the cheapest insurance option or joining up just for the insurance isn't playing the game...if you're not prepared to support your sport you shouldn't be doing it, go play tiddly winks! So compulsory insurance & only one company allowed to sell it to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 They could do what they wanted in terms of price & you would either have to pay up or shut up. what if for some reason you fall out with BASC ? No more shooting then? Terrible idea................................................ this is not a pop at BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST3V3 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I agree every 1 shooting should have insurance but only 1 company supplying it will never be the case. imagine only having 1 choice of insurance company for your car insurance can you imagine your premium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RemmySPS Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 For £30 you can get this http://www.sacs.org.uk/ Less than half the cost of BASC and will fight your corner for you even more than BASC. I believe they are more prepared to fight than BASC who have rolled over and capitulated in order to try and save their own cushy jobs. SACS INSURANCE What does it actually cover? One of the most common reasons for joining SACS is in order to be certain of having proper third party insurance cover, in case something happens and you end up being sued. Most people don’t read the small print, though, and as a result they hope they are covered for everything, but not really sure if they are covered for anything! To ensure that our members are not in this helpless position, the information below should be of interest. When SACS moved to its new HQ in Lanarkshire, one of our first actions was to meet our insurers face to face, to establish exactly what was covered under the policy we have had since our inception in 1994. After considering this policy carefully, we felt that some parts of it could be improved a little, so the following is a summary of the cover which is now in place for all members. All of the additions have been made without any additional cost to members. Third-party Liability - All recognised country sports, except competitive horse events. This now covers: All types of shooting with any legal weapons, whether at live or artificial targets, indoors or outdoors; all types of fishing with rod and line; all types of falconry and hawking; all types of gundog work, including tests and trials; all types of lurcher and terrier work, including racing and showing at events; ferreting; archery; hunting, hacking and general personal horse use; the use of hounds, etc. for hunting. The fishing cover includes fishing anywhere within UK Territorial Limits, so sea-fishing is also specifically covered, provided you are within this area. Note that this cover applies when carrying out these activities as a sport – it does not cover commercial activities, or carrying out these activities for hire or reward. SACS has a ‘Business Member’ category, which covers even commercial activities which would otherwise be country sports, and anyone wishing to extend their cover in this way should be registered as a Business Member. To find out if you should have this additional cover, contact SACS HQ. Employers Liability. The cover includes employer’s liability for casual beaters and pickers-up, and anyone who may be assisting you with your sport in some way. In law, anyone who is ‘employed’, which simply means receiving some kind of reward for what they are doing, is treated differently from an ordinary member of the public for insurance purposes. Your SACS insurance covers these ‘employees’ while they are acting on your behalf. Legal Insurance One of the most common difficulties members encounter is when they apply for a firearm or shotgun certificate, or to renew their existing certificates. These problems are becoming increasingly common, as the article in this issue on licensing problems shows. Your SACS insurance includes up to £100,000 for legal expenses to cover the cost of employing expert legal assistance in appealing against a refusal or other associated difficulties. This legal insurance also covers your legal costs in defending yourself if you are charged with alleged offences relating to your sport – the most common of these are currently under the Wildlife and Countryside Acts, although there are others. The legal representatives we use are widely acknowledged to be among the best in the country. We at SACS think this is pretty comprehensive cover – if anyone can think of something relevant which is not covered by the wording above, please contact SACS HQ immediately, and we will have it added! STOP PRESS FROM 10TH AUGUST 2006 THE INSURANCE HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO COVER THE KEEPING AND BREEDING OF BRITISH BIRDS IN CAPTIVITY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Any chance you have anything to do with SACS ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 SACS has always appeared to me to be little more than a one-man-band. Recent events within that organisation have confirmed my views. As for fighting corners, do a search on here and elsewhere for a guy called Winchester's experience of SACS doing that (or not) for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 BASC may well cost double that of SACS, but offers far more bang for your buck. Just review the organisations web sites, read the various shooting magazines. My next door neighbours cat has had almost as much influence on protecting shooting as SACS. Does anyone know if the alleged financial irregularities at SACS were resolved? webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Please , please ,no more sacs v basc threads we have done this one to death and basc allways come out on top . Oh ,by the way my hat is in the basc corner . Renewed yesterday and got a tenner off for being an old pensioner ,and yes i am an old wagbi boy and proud of it . Harnser Edited June 1, 2009 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Harnser Dont worry, if previous SACS vs BASC threads are anything to go buy, a moderator will be along shortly and close it down. That why I've not put any effort in. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 There will always be room for more than one organisation, for example at the very least there will always be a 'general' shooting organisation and a 'target shooting' organisation, as some target guys do not want to be associated with live quarry shooting, fair enough. There will always be room for a general field sports organisation I am sure. But as I have said before even if there were one organisation within a very short time there would be a 'breakout' group from it setting up on their own, offering a lower cost membership etc. This happens all the time – we have seen it several times in the last 10-12 years or so I agree that everyone who goes shooting should be insured, but not so sure this should be made compulsory by legislation for example, I think shooting has enough laws covering it already – and I would much prefer self regulation! Also, a potential risk with compulsory insurance is compulsory testing – let’s not go there! As to the premiums charged, I am affraid Al4x is a bit off the mark, the premium cost will vary from organisation to organisation. The cost of the premium will depend on several things, such as the level and extent of cover, and the claims history for example. I have said before that some cheaper options are cheaper because they have clauses in them that protect the policy! For example at least two organisations policies will not pay out if you have any other liability policy in play so consequently that organisation will pay less for its policy per capita than BASC for example where we do not have this clause. But as I and others have said before, the insurance is just one small part of why people join associations; join for what the association does and what the deliver. I agree with Al4x that some orgs may well over sell what they can realy deliver on - but thae is me being a bit subjective! There is no need to argue about ‘my organisation is better than yours’ each to their own. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 If I may, with a summary: 1. BASC membership - it's not just insurance. There's all manner of add ons including the No. 1 assist of a dedicated firearms enquiry unit. 2. Clayman's site - it is just insurance. If you just want insurance then he's your man for £20. However, and to show my colours, I would suggest that splashing an extra £40 for full blown BASC membership and cover would be a good idea. You couldn't fill your car up for £40 or buy 1 slab of a decent pigeon load so don't be so tight. 3. SACS - a hilarious organisation of disgruntled ex-BASC officers apparently run from someone's bedroom. More expensive than Clayman but cheaper than BASC - but an organisation with very little to offer in terms of clout or wider member benefits. If you are considering SACS then go with Clayman and save yourself a few bob or dig deep and join a "proper" shooting organisation like BASC. If you want a giggle and a close look at the professional and public face of SACS then have a search on here or Google FoxgunToms webby. I'll leave it there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RemmySPS Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Mmm, seems to be a bit of disagreement on this subject and to be quite honest I’m only going on what I have been told by satisfied members, so perhaps I should enquire more before I go down the SACS route. Anyway I am certainly not going to get into another peeing contest over this subject. As for BASC……….been there, done that , and to be sure I certainly wasn’t happy with the way they push their own agenda; which is why I left. Disgruntled former BASC officers?…….has anyone ever wondered why they are disgruntled? …….Perhaps they didn’t like the way things were progressing along the “Compulsory†shooting tests idea. Or the way that BASC jumped into bed with HMG over the lead ban. Why is it that you can still use lead in Scotland? The system in Scotland is based around the RAMSAR definition of wetlands and BASC Scotland has produced a guide to how the law works. So why couldn’t the same system be used in England and Wales? http://www.ramsar.org/ Loads of unanswered questions and not many believable answers I’m afraid. Edited June 2, 2009 by RemmySPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted June 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 If I may, with a summary: 1. BASC membership - it's not just insurance. There's all manner of add ons including the No. 1 assist of a dedicated firearms enquiry unit. 2. Clayman's site - it is just insurance. If you just want insurance then he's your man for £20. However, and to show my colours, I would suggest that splashing an extra £40 for full blown BASC membership and cover would be a good idea. You couldn't fill your car up for £40 or buy 1 slab of a decent pigeon load so don't be so tight. 3. SACS - a hilarious organisation of disgruntled ex-BASC officers apparently run from someone's bedroom. More expensive than Clayman but cheaper than BASC - but an organisation with very little to offer in terms of clout or wider member benefits. If you are considering SACS then go with Clayman and save yourself a few bob or dig deep and join a "proper" shooting organisation like BASC. If you want a giggle and a close look at the professional and public face of SACS then have a search on here or Google FoxgunToms webby. I'll leave it there :blink: Much as I hate agreeing with an Ethics boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted June 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Remmy the whole point of an organisation such as BASC is that you can ask the questions but leaving the organisation just because you don’t like it is utterly pointless (who cares). If you’ve a different point of view from the majority stay, shout and campaign for things to change. To often people moan like hell but won’t/don’t do anything about it. Supporting any ‘one man band’ such as SACs IS however pointless in todays world because you’ll never be heard and shooting needs a large organisation fighting our corner. Unite and win, divide and fall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 A couple of points if I may Lead- you may have heard about the fact that Wales, N Ireland Scotland and England have their own parliamentary systems and in some cases can set their own laws- this is why the law on lead is different in Scotland, and England, or different quarry lists for example, By the way - who do you think campained hard for the law in Scotland to be like it is?? Compulasory testing eh? Where is it may I ask? Yet another accusation thrown at BASC - wrong target mate!- I bet you are talking about DSC1 (or NSSC 1 as it used ot be called if I remember right)- who started this? Not BASC look at the facts, this was started by the BDS I think you will find! I agree with Higlander, if you are a member of BASC then use the democratic process to get your voice heard! But I also accept that BASC is not for everyone. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I have just joined into BASC although i am already a member of the Countryside Alliance who also have £10 million public liability insurance. Like so many have said it is not about the insurance as such (although i agree you should not shoot without it) it is as many have said about the campaigning for the sport and lets not forget the many different discounts you can receive as well George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RemmySPS Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Compulasory testing eh? Where is it may I ask? Yet another accusation thrown at BASC - wrong target mate!- I bet you are talking about DSC1 (or NSSC 1 as it used ot be called if I remember right)- who started this? Not BASC look at the facts, this was started by the BDS I think you will find No David; it was started a while back when John Swift decided to write that little piece in one of the gun magazines…..or have you forgotten the furore that followed on just about every shooting website on the net. We had a hell of a ding-dong over this subject, on this and other sites, so don’t think you are talking to a half-wit who doesn’t know what was written on page after page of internet space. Remember……..the ones that were going to cost £200+ each before you even got to DSC or Lamping. It may have been forgotten about on Pigeonwatch, but it still rankles on other forums where you have been invited to post……. And please don’t call me mate, it’s a term I find offensive when delivered in that manner. Edited June 2, 2009 by RemmySPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Wheres the YAWN emoticon when you need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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