The_Craws Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 I was wondering what the opinion of the members of this forum to the national identity card. The national identity card register will hold unprecedented amounts of information on the individual without any real benefits other than another addtional way to prove your identity which can already be done by producing household bills, credit cards, drivers licences, passports etc. costing the TAX payer an estimated £5.5 billion and a futher £80 to obtain a card. No evidence has been produced by the government that proves their claims that it will help stop terrorism, identity theft or benefit fraud. Immigrants are here legally and will be given one of the cards illegal immigrants are here illegally and wont be given a card but they will need to ask them to produce a card which wont be done anyway because it wont be an immediate requirement to carry a card on you at all times when its first intoduced. If its going to be a requirement to carry a card at all times in the future then that introduces the whole idea of civil liberty. What do you reasonable people feel about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Absolute madness. If it isn’t going to be compulsory to carry it, then how the hell is it going to stop terrorism. All the terrorist has to do is not carry the damn thing to start with and by the time the police wise up to him it will be too late anyway. This lot are like little kids in a toy shop. They have to play with everything whether they like it or not. They seem to think that they have to be seen to be passing laws, even if those laws are of no benefit to anyone….almost like being drunk with power and needing to prove who is in charge. They just cannot see that if something isn’t broken it doesn’t need fixing, and seem intent on passing as much legislation as possible before “Joe Public” wakes up and throws them out. By which time it will be too late and the whole country will be down the toilet and on its way to the ocean. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baikiel boy Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 HI,The person in charge disgaced ex minister plunket !!What a shower . Dont people have short memories . Regards bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 HI,The person in charge disgaced ex minister plunket !!What a shower . Dont people have short memories . Regards bb I think its a bloody insult to law abiding British citizens... The only thing that is going to stop Rapists and Paedofiles is Castration and Murderers a length of stout rope with a knot in it. As for Blunket he just sums up Blairs Government Im afraid.. same leopard, same spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craws Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 I totally agree. I think that the general public do not realise that the identity card scheme is going to be more than just an additional piece of plastic in the wallet. Its much more than that they will be able to gather information such as: Name Address Previous addresses Times of residence throughout the UK and abroad Biometrics such as iris scan face scan fingerprints signature photograph residential status previous residential status' etc The list goes on and no good reason has been given to its use, that I have heard anyway. Another thing, the new identity card register will have to be updated and it will be the individual's reponsibility to ensure that all the details remain correct and if they do not can face a fine of upto £1000. It will cost you to correct details on the register whether it was your fault or the fault of a civil servant. All these details will be shared among government agencies including; the police, serious organised crime agency plus many more. I really couldnt make this stuff up. It sounds like its came from George Orwell's 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEREGRINE Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 The only thing that is going to stop Rapists and Paedofiles is Castration and Murderers a length of stout rope with a knot in it. And the only thing that will stop illegal immigrants is a bullet!! Peregrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 I AM NOT A NUMBER! Ahem, Sorry. I dont want to be classified and put into a group. I like to keep myslef to myself, and dont want a card shouting out to the whole word everything about me. It's all very Orwellesce - next thing we know we'll forming the USE (United States of Europe) and be drinking Victory gin whilst our weapons experts go missing for talking about the truth (Wait a minuet? Isnt that happining now?). Labour are a bunch of bloody communists. An ID card isnt going to stop terroists, like gun laws dont stop criminals breaking the law. Its what they do, commit crime. If the terrorists want to blow up the houses of parliament the conversation wont go something like this: "Ready to die white pigs, I wipe my shoe on you!" "Er, Imran?" "Yes Abdul?" "I've, erm, forgot my ID card.." "IDIOT, I told you to pack it." "Sorry Abby" "I guess we better turn back then" If they want to blow something up, they'll do it if they had and ID card or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEREGRINE Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 "Ready to die white pigs, I wipe my shoe on you!""Er, Imran?" "Yes Abdul?" "I've, erm, forgot my ID card.." "IDIOT, I told you to pack it." "Sorry Abby" "I guess we better turn back then" :o :o Peregrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craws Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 The Conservative party must be communists too because they tried to introduce them one time already and voted for them when labour were finishing the job in the last parliament. Luckily enough the House of Lords rejected the bill and sent it back to the commons for review so they need to take another vote on the issue. So this is the time to write your letters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Does not a drivers licence and/or passport serve as the same as this i/d card . are not all people served a N.I. number at 16/18 ish for work ,realy cant see any difference ,if you look at the way of the world now ,it wont be long before you all wear and identifying tattoo ,just like your doggy :unsure: Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craws Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 (edited) I posted a letter concerning this issue to my newly elected local labour MP today. I will let you folk know how he responds. This is a good link for the ID card, they have an online petition on there somewhere as well. NO2ID Edited May 10, 2005 by The_Craws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 http://www.no2id-petition.net/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 so they will know where i live,how long i have lived there,my ni number,wether or not im entitled to benefits,wether or not i have a clean licence,if ive committed a crime etc etc ? big bloody deal. that link points to the fundamental downfall of this country,namely human rights,civil liberties and benefits.got nothing to hide ? wheres the problem. bloody lilly livered liberals,its my right to with hold all information,claim benefits and claim its all "1984". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 I don't have a problem with having an Identity Card, buit then I have nothing to hide. All of the information it will contain regarding me, is already held on a Government Computer somewhere. I have a Driving Licence, Passport, Pay Tax, Bank Account and I am a Registered Voter. They won't stop terrorism, or illegal immigrants, or social security fraudsters, or criminals, but they might help. I also believe there should be a National DNA Register, that might make some of the Child Murderers think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 like i said Cranfield ,its already in place under another guise ,dont think for a minute you have anonimity . big bruvver is already watching you boys :unsure: scary eh as you said "They won't stop terrorism, or illegal immigrants, or social security fraudsters, or criminals, but they might help. I also believe there should be a National DNA Register, that might make some of the Child Murderers think twice" bang on the money Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_2 Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Having been on the inside of the security apparatus of the UK on anti terrorist ops I can tell you that you have everything to fear. What I and my colleagues used to get up to in the name of national security would cause riots in the street. The Jews in Germany had nothing to fear when they were required to register…it didn’t last long. Who can tell me what’s going to happen politically 15 years from now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I don't think ID cards will make a blind bit of difference to terrorists and such like; same as credit cards and similar stuff, crimminals work on where there's a will there's a way it ever was and always will be. What ID cards will do is make the majority, law abiding citizens (like us???) more controlable. This government (maybe any other) seems hell bent on controlling us all and making us do what they want. ID cards will simply make that a lot easier. BIG BROTHER is watchin' U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Initialising the ID card system could be providing work for another few thousand beurocrats. It will help keep the unemployment figures down when the kids who got conned into going to university get ****** off with the top up fees they weren't going to get stuck with and realise that there aren't thousands of jobs out there for people with phd's in philosphy and country dancing once they leave. I've come to the conclusion that the more legislation we have the better, when you look behind it all there is nothing to back it up but the fear of those who believe it can be enforced. If everybody decided to stop paying their council tax there is no way they could all be "processed" through the "system", same if everbody refused to buy petrol and diesel at the ridiculously high prices they are now. Sorry to wander off topic but it is all relevant to the dire situation we find ourselves in yet again with B.Liar and co. (sorry, didn't check the lunchtime news so for all I know he could be the ex prime meddler, I wouldn't bet against him leaving No. 10 sooner rather than later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craws Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 The point to whether "If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear from an ID card" is a falsehood. You dont need to have anything to hide from the government to fear the ID card. If we dont need to carry it at all times then it wont be useful in combating anything because they could just say: "I dont have it on me, Ill nip down to the police station with it later." Knowing full well that they wont if they are not innocent of any crime. If we do need to carry it on us at all times, which will be introduced later; then you will be breaking the law, yes, thats right you will be a criminal for forgetting to carry it will you - thats not hyping it up because if it isnt then it will work as in the scenario above. I dont want to be part of a society that makes you carry Identity documents, a society that the police will have the excuse to stop anyone just to ask for ID, that reminds me of Hitler's Germany or the Soviet Union. It certainly isnt the way a free and democratic society should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I dont want to be part of a society that makes you carry Identity documents, a society that the police will have the excuse to stop anyone just to ask for ID, that reminds me of Hitler's Germany or the Soviet Union. It certainly isnt the way a free and democratic society should work. kinda unsure which way your leaning there,if we do ,if we dont . but your last point i think is a little un-founded, go through your wallet an tell me honestly you dont carry anything that will tie you to identity ,this is the world you already live in buddy . And i for one am "sure as god made little green apples" would want someone ,who god forbid came across any of my kin in an accident, or myself for that matter ,to be able to find me or them through some kind of identification . just my opinion . Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_2 Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 As you say we already carry many forms of ID, why then do we need another that we have to pay for? Cheers S_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craws Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) but your last point i think is a little un-founded, go through your wallet an tell me honestly you dont carry anything that will tie you to identity ,this is the world you already live in buddy . I have things in my wallet such as my drivers licence, as well as my student ID that are all forms of identity, I am not denying that I have forms of identity already, I never have denyed that. There is a whole world of a difference between a piece of plastic that has my name and date of birth (as well as photo and even signature) on it to a card that has my face scan, iris scan, address, fingerprints, previous addresses etc. backed up by a computer database that has all my details on it. That I will have to carry around with me or I will be commiting an offence. I dont have to carry my drivers licence about with me and I dont have to produce it to anyone that I do not want to see it. I have a drivers licence because I want to drive, thats why I paid for it, Ill have to pay for an ID card which will do the same job for identity purposes - its not identity its about survailance as someone else has said. :unsure: Edited May 11, 2005 by The_Craws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I have a natural objection to anything that the Labour Government wants me to do. But, even after reading all the so called objections, I still can't see anything wrong with ID cards, apart from having to pay for one. As has alrerady been said, the information contained on the ID card is currently available somewhere (probably excluding the iris and finger print, if that is indeed required on the ID card). I would have less worries about someone using my credit card, if it required a scan of my iris, before money was paid out. I dont have to carry my drivers licence about with me and I dont have to produce it to anyone that I do not want to see it. I think you will find that you have to produce it to a Police Officer (or Police Station within 7 days) if requested, wether you like it or not. As I am not Paranoid, I don't care if the Government keeps me under surveillance. In fact I would like two Police Officers (preferrably armed), to follow me around all day and sleep in an adjacent room to mine, at night. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 In fact I would like two Police Officers (preferrably armed), to follow me around all day and sleep in an adjacent room to mine, at night. :unsure: NO YOU WOULDN'T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 NO YOU WOULDN'T Why wouldn't I ? The point is,( rather like ID Cards), I would view those Police Officers as being a benefit, not a threat. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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