pigeon master Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hello Fellas, I’ve got a real predicament!! I’m looking to purchase a new rifle in 243 for mainly fox control with a splash of deer stalking when the opportunity arises, such as the odd days paid stalking. The problem I have is I love the custom Accuracy International copies, I used the real mcoy in the forces and I’ve never shot anything better but, I cant afford a real one as the wife would cut my ***** off. The thing is, if I go with the option of say a remmy with AI stock etc, would I look a pleb turning up with what looks like a fully fledged sniper rifle for a days deer stalking??? I guess I already know the answer to this but, do any other members use this type of rifle for stalking?? or do you save yourself the embarrassment and keep them for fox and range work only?? My budget for the rifle is about £2-2.5k with optics. I know the Sako 85 has great reviews and I know it would be a great rifle to use for both foxing, deer and target but the AI has a real draw to me…Like the one below or above if the pic turns up. Tell me fellas, who else uses a tactical type rifle for stalking??? Or would I be a real minority??? The PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RemmySPS Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Not being funny, but if I went on a paid stalk and someone turned up with a rifle like that I would be very wary of going out with them. No I’m not a snob or a posh prude, but I have seen lads on fox shoots with this type of rifle and they always seem to be over-the-top for a simple bit of foxing. Perhaps I’m getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcountryman Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Wouldn't that whole setup be a bit on the heavy side for a day's walking and stalking? plus the fact that alot of shots taken when deer stalking are not from the prone? again, a weight issue. Just my £.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave dog Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 When i have gone out on paid stalking, present from her indoors. I've asked the same sort of question, with two very different answers. 1) Milatry looking rifle have no place in the stalking wrold. 2) As long as ii's accurate and drops the deer, who care's what it looks like. Costumer choice not mine what he/she shoot with. I aslo think we all forget what fire arms were desgined for. I can see the advantages for sinper type rifle and their are some stalkers out their that use them ie Styre SSG, Remmy Police model, Win stealth model etc. All because they can usally take more abuse than normal sporting rifle, and can give a more stable shooting platfrom. And we all spend silly some of money tring to get the most accurate rifle we can, have the some of the following work done, pillar bedding, glass bedding, recrowning, have the barrels fully floated and so on. To make them shoot very well. So why don't we think about it, all the mentioned work will take most us up to price range or beyond in many cases, The think is case for them, but the trouble is AI or AICS is to much in your face so put people off, more sproting looking ones like the Styre SSG etc most people can coup with. Only down side with these rifles is their weigth. Foxing/vermin control and Deer stalking are two very different things. So on that fornt perpahs two rifles may the need of the day. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Why don't you go for what YOU want and then get a second suitable stalking stock you can drop the barreled action into when stalking. A pal of mine does this and with the stalking stock pillar bedded and QR mounts he can swap stock and scope without loss of zero. You would not have to buy the second stock until you started stalking giving you time to save a few shillings and get the job done proper so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I know a stalker of 30 years experiance who is using an AI AW and another guy with similar experiance who is using a custom sniper type rifle This is what I am using. It is a bit heavy but I am a big lad and dont mind carrying it. I always shoot it from a bipod, shooting sticks or some other rest. Good luck what ever you choose Dave Edited July 3, 2009 by Devilishdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 As long as its up to the job in terms of accuracy and power who gives a **** what it looks like?! The only downside i can see is the weight, but if you're willing to hump it about then go for it! Christ if the person(s) who you're stalking with are so precious they can't deal with looking at a 'military' rifle ( ) i don't know how they manage to gralloch a deer If it came to that just wrap some scrim netting around it or some brown tape if they're that offended! I'm mainly a target shooter but i've used my all BLACK Steyr SSG04 for the occasional stalk and none of the deer managers/game keepers have said a thing about it, other than "nice bit of kit" I couldn't afford to get another rifle of that quality with decent glass just for stalking, and if i went somewhere that didn't like my rifle i'd just take my business elsewhere, hrumph! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid the sniper Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I know a stalker of 30 years experiance who is using an AI AW and another guy with similar experiance who is using a custom sniper type rifle This is what I am using. It is a bit heavy but I am a big lad and dont mind carrying it. I always shoot it from a bipod, shooting sticks or some other rest. Good luck what ever you choose Dave What gun is that,it looks crackin,what sort of money did the whole set up cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I know a stalker of 30 years experiance who is using an AI AW and another guy with similar experiance who is using a custom sniper type rifle This is what I am using. It is a bit heavy but I am a big lad and dont mind carrying it. I always shoot it from a bipod, shooting sticks or some other rest. Good luck what ever you choose Dave Ummmm my panties are moist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon master Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Remmy, I’m a bit confused why you wouldn’t be keen to shoot with me because of the type of rifle!! You must be a real traditionalist!!. I’d be hesitant of shooting with anyone irrelevant of their rifle until I knew their level of weapon handling but I don’t think I’d gauge it on the shape or type…it would be what comes from their mouth and results on the target. To be honest weight isn’t an issue for me either, carrying a 17 pound rifle compared to a 10 pounder isn’t going to kill me so I’m ok with the weight. I do have a mixed bag of views here and I understand that some of the stalking community prefer to see sporting rifles but like Breastman, and Sid say…if it’s up for the job then I guess that’s all that’s important, I just cant afford two rifles…no way. Well I’m happy that if other people use tactical rifles for the occasional stalk then I can too, so sorry fellas if one day we turn up at the same venue and I’m carrying my big heavy tactical rifle, don’t frown upon me, as my first priority above all else is a clean kill, and I should be capable of that after spending most of my life strapped to the AI L96A1. .Just didn’t want to turn up somewhere and be told I can’t use it but if you can then tactical it is!! Yeah really smart setup you got there Dave The PM….thanks for your honest views Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see any moral or aesthetic problem with using an AI or similar on the hill, but physical fitness and skill are the deal-breakers: a friend of mine who is an unashamed, Walting fatty, struggles to lift his TRG-42 (.300WM) out of the car, let alone up any form of hill, yet insists its the only rifle for the job. Crack on, I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon master Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Yeah why not...If its a clean kill then the rifle and guy firing it have both done their job. Baldrick...hope you didnt get that lower sump fitted.. haha nasty pasty!! The PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) What gun is that,it looks crackin,what sort of money did the whole set up cost? It started off life as a Remington 700 ADL in .243 Now it is .243 Ackley Improved, it has Border Archer Barrel, Timney trigger, HS Precision Stock, Magazine conversion, Sako extractor mod to bolt, Reflex T8 Moderator and a Harris Bipod. The scope is an IOR 6-24x50 35mm tube. The scope is clamped with hand lapped IOR rings. Not sure on cost I guess it would be In the region of £2500 but I have done a bit of work my self so…….. Dave Editied to add the smithing work was done by Border barrels. PS if you are used to lugging an L96 body armour and all your kit you wont even notice the AI on it's own. Edited July 3, 2009 by Devilishdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well if it's creaming your knickers with one remy have a couple more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon master Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Very nice, I was looking at the Remmy too but then I heard that Rimfiremagic are using the surgeon actions on request, stick a Border Barrel on and hey presto a super rifle but the cost would be getting towards a gen AI AW. I also had a look at the Border Barrels website and they have few AI variants but again with their barrels the costs go up to and over my budget. You get what you pay for though decisions decisions!! Love the way they break their barrels in, you don’t get that with many armourers!! I’ll probably go with the Remmy SPS with AI stock and jewel trigger to start with and see how that fairs. How do you rate the IOR scopes??? I’ve considered one instead of the S&B or Leupold. I sooo need a lottery win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RemmySPS Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Remmy, I’m a bit confused why you wouldn’t be keen to shoot with me because of the type of rifle!! You must be a real traditionalist!!. To be honest weight isn’t an issue for me either, carrying a 17 pound rifle compared to a 10 pounder isn’t going to kill me so I’m ok with the weight. As I say I’m probably getting old, BUT! think about this in a more practical way. It may seem to you that this is a “Tactical” rifle…..but it really isn’t a “Practical” rifle. OK it’s great if you have to take a shot at a 200yd deer and can get down into the prone position without spooking the beast. But what happens if you need to take the shot whilst standing or kneeling. I don’t know about you but I find that any rifle I zero in the prone position on a bipod, shoots to a different POA when standing or kneeling. Add to that the cumbersome nature of the rifle an I think you will agree that a nice lightweight Tikka would do the job much better, and would be so much easier to carry about on the hill. It doesn’t matter how big and strong you are, carrying a 17lb rifle all day will soon take its toll…..believe me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Very nice, I was looking at the Remmy too but then I heard that Rimfiremagic are using the surgeon actions on request, stick a Border Barrel on and hey presto a super rifle but the cost would be getting towards a gen AI AW. I also had a look at the Border Barrels website and they have few AI variants but again with their barrels the costs go up to and over my budget. You get what you pay for though decisions decisions!! Love the way they break their barrels in, you don’t get that with many armourers!! I’ll probably go with the Remmy SPS with AI stock and jewel trigger to start with and see how that fairs. How do you rate the IOR scopes??? I’ve considered one instead of the S&B or Leupold. I sooo need a lottery win AI use border barrels for their guns. I am happy with the IOR but not realy had it long enough for an in deapth review. It does seav user friendly although I left the IR on a few nights ago and now the battery is flat £2.99 for two from Tesco so not the end of the world! I beleive the SPS are shooters main problems being the stock and the trigger so you should be sorted. Good luck what ever you choose Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Light weight ruger scout .308 without a mod . I can carry it all day without a problem . Its much more pointable and faster to swing on to target . How many deer do you shoot from the prone postion ? not very many . Most of my deer are shot from the standing postion rested against a tree or rested on a fence post or from a a bush in a hedge row . you carnt shoot from the prone postion this time of the year as the crops and the grass are to high . Your better off up a high seat . I wouldnt want to lug one of them heavy military things around ,besides i find them ugly to look at and and would never want to own one . Traditionalist may be , wannabe sniper , no . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I wonder how many deer have been killed with a good old Lee-Enfield .303. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 As I say I’m probably getting old, BUT! think about this in a more practical way. It may seem to you that this is a “Tactical” rifle…..but it really isn’t a “Practical” rifle. OK it’s great if you have to take a shot at a 200yd deer and can get down into the prone position without spooking the beast. But what happens if you need to take the shot whilst standing or kneeling. I don’t know about you but I find that any rifle I zero in the prone position on a bipod, shoots to a different POA when standing or kneeling. Add to that the cumbersome nature of the rifle an I think you will agree that a nice lightweight Tikka would do the job much better, and would be so much easier to carry about on the hill. It doesn’t matter how big and strong you are, carrying a 17lb rifle all day will soon take its toll…..believe me. This whole thread made me laugh and this post highlights some golden ones...... A rifle that is correctly bedded and has either a free floating or properly bedded barrel will not shift POI regardless of the firing position. That is provided the correct shot release and follow through is carried out. Also a 'tactical' rifle is not necessary any more cumbersome than an ordinary rifle, provided you know how to handle it. Finally I carry a rifles weighing up to 22lbs all day and do not feel any worse for wear. Simply put more time in at the gym or as most people do opt for a lighter rifle. However do not assume that because you cannot efficiently carry/use a particular firearm, no one can. With a good 2 point sling standing or sitting shots are easy to make with almost any rifle. This is not a personal dig, just that your thread does highlight some common misconceptions. Personally I'd recommend getting a rifle which you know will work and maintain its potential accuracy under any conditions. For me the more 'tactical' rifles fit this bill perfectly, as opposed to a 7lbs traditional walnut rifle. However I have nothing against 'traditional' rifles that will meet the same standards as a 'tactical' rifle, but these are few and far between.... Here's a picture of one of my 'stalking' rifles, weighing in at a mere 19lbs and 4'10" long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Tikka T3 Tactical is superb by all accounts-i`ve just got a Tikka T3 LITE which is Awesome.I recommend S&B scopes-Superb scopes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RemmySPS Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) This whole thread made me laugh and this post highlights some golden ones...... A rifle that is correctly bedded and has either a free floating or properly bedded barrel will not shift POI regardless of the firing position. That is provided the correct shot release and follow through is carried out. This is not a personal dig, just that your thread does highlight some common misconceptions. Firstly let me point out that the difference in POA has nothing to do with bedding or type of rifle, this is something that is idiosyncratic with the position that you take behind the butt and is NOT a misconception at all. If you are in the prone position you are firmly behind the rifle and the POA will be in one spot, whereas if you are standing then the recoil will be absorbed differently and the rifle will put the POA somewhere else. This can be true even with a .22rf target rifle and many 3p shooters have to re-zero their rifles prior to changing their match cards when changing positions. And no this isn’t something that I’ve just made up, it’s something that has been tried and tested by not only myself but other shooters over many years. As for humping a 22lb rifle over hill and dale… ……..why on earth would I want to even try to do that?. My SPS is a monster compared to my Tikka, but it is only carried to an “ambush” point and then set up for any passing fox. The Tikka however is a lovely light rifle that allows me to carry it with ease and to take a shot from any position without the burden of a bipod. And at 58 years of age I certainly ain’t going to shorten what life I have left by running around a gym for hours on end. Edited July 4, 2009 by RemmySPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff-TRG Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Firstly let me point out that the difference in POA has nothing to do with bedding or type of rifle, this is something that is idiosyncratic with the position that you take behind the butt and is NOT a misconception at all. If you are in the prone position you are firmly behind the rifle and the POA will be in one spot, whereas if you are standing then the recoil will be absorbed differently and the rifle will put the POA somewhere else. This can be true even with a .22rf target rifle and many 3p shooters have to re-zero their rifles prior to changing their match cards when changing positions. And no this isn’t something that I’ve just made up, it’s something that has been tried and tested by not only myself but other shooters over many years.As for humping a 22lb rifle over hill and dale… ……..why on earth would I want to even try to do that?. My SPS is a monster compared to my Tikka, but it is only carried to an “ambush” point and then set up for any passing fox. The Tikka however is a lovely light rifle that allows me to carry it with ease and to take a shot from any position without the burden of a bipod. And at 58 years of age I certainly ain’t going to shorten what life I have left by running around a gym for hours on end. Hi RemmySPS, still confused by your post....Are you referring to the 'Point of Aim' or 'Point of Impact'? If the above post is concerned with POA being altered from different positions then your talking about head positions and parallax errors etc. Wheres POI shifting between positions is like I said, all about maintaining the same shot release and follow through, with a bit of parallax error as well.... Obviously there is alot more too it, but it is possible with a lot of practice to shoot to the same POI regardless of position. If you want to improve, buy a few good books on positional shooting and get some coaching. But then again if I was 58, I probably wouldn't bother ...... Edited July 4, 2009 by Tiff-TRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon master Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Light weight ruger scout .308 without a mod . I can carry it all day without a problem . Its much more pointable and faster to swing on to target . How many deer do you shoot from the prone postion ? not very many . Most of my deer are shot from the standing postion rested against a tree or rested on a fence post or from a a bush in a hedge row . you carnt shoot from the prone postion this time of the year as the crops and the grass are to high . Your better off up a high seat . I wouldnt want to lug one of them heavy military things around ,besides i find them ugly to look at and and would never want to own one . Traditionalist may be , wannabe sniper , no . Harnser . I’m struggling to think why you think it’s not possible to shoot a tactical rifle from the same positions as any other??? Yes a touch more heavy but a rifle resting on my thumb anchored against a tree is easy enough with a sporter or tactical. Also I don’t think guys who want or opt for the tactical rifle are wannbe snipers buddy, I agree that ex snipers like myself and others on this forum already have a close relationship with military rifles, then are others who like their shape, ruggedness, and accuracy but it does not mean they are wannabe snipers, its just a matter of choice, which we all are entitled too. Tiff, stunning rifle mate…wish they ran them in 243. The PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) I’m struggling to think why you think it’s not possible to shoot a tactical rifle from the same positions as any other??? Yes a touch more heavy but a rifle resting on my thumb anchored against a tree is easy enough with a sporter or tactical. Also I don’t think guys who want or opt for the tactical rifle are wannbe snipers buddy, I agree that ex snipers like myself and others on this forum already have a close relationship with military rifles, then are others who like their shape, ruggedness, and accuracy but it does not mean they are wannabe snipers, its just a matter of choice, which we all are entitled too. Tiff, stunning rifle mate…wish they ran them in 243. The PM I am not saying a tactical rifle cannot be shot from the off handed postion . But what i am saying is ,that a light weight sporter will do it better ,quicker and easier . As for the wannabe snipers ,we have all seen them down at the range with their tactical rifles . What i am saying is it this type of rifle that attracts them for the macho military looks of the rifle . I am sure these rilfles are accurate and reliable but in my opinion are not a suitable stalking rifle as they have been designed as a prone shooting snipers or target rifle . If you want to go stalking with a rifle not designed for stalking thats your business after all we live in a free country . please tell me the advantages of a tactical rifle over a sporter for deer stalking . Harnser . Edited July 4, 2009 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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