my fac renewal

[andy33]

Mark your persistance was admirable, well done , your actions say alot about you, SACS obviously supported you in every way they possibly could and got the correct result, i would say a good result for all shooters.

 

SACS comendable actions i would not hesitate to join.

 

[scotland rifles]

well done mark, glad you got it sorted out.

 

i hope my renewal will go the same way, i am not even after an open ticket for .243( coz i don't think i would get it anyway) it would appear that a ex army gunnery instructor is not experienced enough to use a .243 on his own ??? even if i have fired more ammo in a day than some will in a life time.

 

I just want that stinking big brother illegal bit that says. the holder of the certificate must be accompanied by a experienced stalker when hunting deer or fox and it will remain so until he/she obtains a deer stalking qualification.

 

Jamie Stewart ( my BASC area representative)and David BASC on this forum have been great, the advice is top notch too. when i spoke to Jamie and told him of my concerns that this is not just a big brother attitude but NOT EVEN A LEGAL REQUIREMENT to be able to stalk, he agreed,

 

I have sent my application in to retain my 2 rim fires and my .243, and i have asked for a new slot for a centre fire mod, the reason i done this was this,

 

i feel this will not go down well ( me asking for the above condition be removed) so i felt if i was to apply for another cf rifle they would drop the .243 and give the other to me opened up, but by keeping my .243 and asking for it to be available for fox and deer and for all ground game with no mentor this could possibly give me a bit of a upper hand. but saying that i spoke to a good mate last week and i was told the following,

 

he had a local guy to him apply for the following,( same county as me and the same fld/flo.)

 

22lr, 17hmr, 22.250, and a 270,

 

he has 360 acres of land cleared for .243 ( are they now classed a small bore and large bore rifles ?)

 

he is 19 years old.

 

he has never held such a thing as a airgun before this

 

and you have guesed it, HE GOT THE FLIPIN LOT AND ALL OPEN TOO.

 

Now as you have clearly mentioned in the above report Mark something is surly wrong with the system, we have a new national computer system but every county uses different guidelines, they all employ people that would seem to me to be better of selling the BIG ISSUE on a street corner,

 

they all have the same song book but the contents are all messed up, this should not be used as an excuse, but rather a reason for them all to sit down and get this sorted out.

 

i will update you as to what goes on with mine.

 

bob.

[al4x]

nice one Mark frankly thats amazing compared to my FEO, I had a .223 variation granted recently within a week from posting I'd had the interview and got the ticket back. No mentoring no nothing didn't even ask if I'd used a centrefire before was just happy i'd had my ticket 3 years and used the HMR a fair bit in that time. Land wise just asked if anything had changed since it was last looked at which was years ago checked with the landowner that he'd still got all the land etc and that was it. But this ones been in the job 10 years so knows it well, yours just makes you think you're dealing with morons. Hopefully you won't have any more unpleasant dealings but guess come next renewal we'll hear more

[DaveK]

Maybe that is because BASC have more than 10 members

 

How do you know they wouldn't have been so quick?

 

 

Experience and not hearsay like most people.

 

Very good at giving advice but not good at jumping into action.

 

Size of membership has nothing to do with it, they're just not geared up to act quickly for individual members.

[Bazooka Joe]

Absolute cracking result Mark, & good on ya for sticking it out with all the opposition Bu$sh£t they fired back at you.

 

She said "oh right then if you can get that in writing we will consider it but you cant have it for fox as its to much gun".

 

Typical, uninformed, programed response, they must have it all wrote down in front of them to answer.....the 243 is a Wildcat Cartridge, necked down from a 308, specifically for long range coyote shooting.

 

As for FEO's, there's a good few of them interprit firearms law to there own way of thinking, reading it from there own bible, & in nearly 40yr of shooting I've only come across one that was upto speed.

 

Durham must have the cherry on the cake with this one though, with a FEO recently arrested & charged with fraud, more to follow on this one.

 

Another vote for Ian at SACS for coming up with the goods at a time of need, just goes to show that SACS are backing there word on issues like Mark's, & standing behind members at a time of need.

 

Yes I'm a member, & with reading the recent thread from Mark, it does give me a lot of confident knowing I've an organization that is there if I ever need it.

 

BJ.

[lurcherboy]

You have more patience than me Mark.

 

 

 

 

LB

[markbivvy]

You have more patience than me Mark.

 

 

 

 

LB

 

Thanks C.

the phone call i made asking for the variation form made me more determined to get this sorted, " you cant have one of them".

then to be told several times "sorry mr whatsyouname but your 243 application end here".

and then give be a load of boll ax as a reason.

[plinker]

well done mark

i have 222 on open ticket from D&C police, when i wanted a 243 i did a variation against a 22lr mod and sent in one of my exsiting permissions signed off by the landowner for deer,only about 60 acres.

when i intialy applied for my fac 22lr and hmr this land was checked by my fao he asked me if i intended getting a 223 at a later date if so he would clear it to 223 to save him coming out in the future.

anyway when the 243 variation went in some years later the police phoned saying the land is only cleared for 223 so i told them why,they said they would give it another look as my fao was on holiday and did i think it was suitable for 243.

2 weeks later my fac came back with 243 fully open for deer ,fox and vermin.

shows the different attidudes by 2 different forces using the same laws,its bizzare.

[markbivvy]

Thanks P.

West yorkshire are notorious for implementing department policy rather than home office guidance.

Most folk would not push it as we often see on here people dont want to rock the boat.

I have been told by a few people that the way i went was the wrong way, but what else can you do when you get reasons like.

you cant have a 243 on there as the land is passed for 223 so wont be looked at again.

or if the chaps that looks at it dont see deer you cant have the rifle.

all **** and makes your blood boil.

nearly forgot the classic reply i had from all the feo,s i talked to

 

"WE ISSUE FAC,S NOT SACS"

Edited August 7, 2009 by markbivvy

[Justintime]

Anyone wishing to join SACS pm me your address and i will send you the form cheers

[DaveK]

Anyone wishing to join SACS pm me your address and i will send you the form cheers

 

And you are, who in the SACS hierarchy?

[willy1]

Why not go directly to their website. www.sacs.org.uk ?

[Justintime]

And you are, who in the SACS hierarchy?

Just a volenteer rep for now

[hawkeye]

Congratulation Mark and have you shot the new 243 yet or did kdubya take it back home with him...

[DaveK]

Congratulation Mark and have you shot the new 243 yet or did kdubya take it back home with him...

 

I think he's making love to it Mike. Not heard a cheep from him since he went out foxing.

 

I got four last night on newly cut rape. God they're just plain stupid at this time of year.

[markbivvy]

243 si doing fine thanks chaps.

as is sacs on the cfuk site who have just signed up for sacs as the forum group insurers.

[DaveK]

as is sacs on the cfuk site who have just signed up for sacs as the forum group insurers.

 

 

and we don't need anyone to send us application forms either.

[starlight32]

That all sounds like a bit of a nightmare mark . Some of the constabularys really do try it on . They hope to put as many people off as possible at the first hurdle . Good advice is crucial at this stage of your application and dont just give up . If you can meet the criteria than you will get your .243 .

Ever thought of a move to Norfolk ? I think you will find the constabulary more sympathetic towards the shooter . A member of this forum recently gaind his FAC for .243 for fox and deer on his first application , with no insistance on dsc1 or mentoring . If it can be done in norfolk it can be done in the big jungle of Leeds . Keep pressing on mark you will get there .

Harnser .

 

And Suffolk are even more amicable

[Bazooka Joe]

as is sacs on the cfuk site who have just signed up for sacs as the forum group insurers.

 

Not surprised one bit, SASC's offer an excellent Insurance Package, & to top it off, they have proved they WILL back it up aswell,

 

BJ.

[markbivvy]

Not surprised one bit, SASC's offer an excellent Insurance Package, & to top it off, they have proved they WILL back it up aswell,

 

BJ.

 

 

Had a good few pm,s and emails from lads who have had or are having the same sort of trouble from there FLD.

best bet it to get on to sacs as the more people that do the sooner firearms departments who have bad track records can be sorted.

or bend over and take it.

[Justintime]

243 si doing fine thanks chaps.

as is sacs on the cfuk site who have just signed up for sacs as the forum group insurers.

So has NOBS 9,000 MEMBERS

[markbivvy]

9000 people cant be wrong then.

[njc110381]

Well done for getting it all sorted Mark. I've wondered for a long time why your force have treated you so badly, I've never heard of an experienced shooter being restricted the way you were!

 

From the day my FAC arrived I've never had a serious issue with my force. Now and again my requests have required a little backing up with evidence, but really that is fair. They're no push over but they will allow most things. The one exception is the .375H&H for Deer thing I went through a few months back. They didn't back down on that, but as deep down I couldn't stand up and say I "needed" it, there was little point in falling out over it. That was just me being greedy! Mark has been shooting for many more years than I have, so a .243 isn't really a lot to ask for!

 

I'm planning to join SACS myself. I think we all should. Now I may get comeback for this but I'm going to say it anyway....Why do we all seem to be looking out just for our own interests? As soon as Mark told me about his case I decided I'd lob a cheque for £30 their way. Not because I may need help in the future but because they've helped him already. Our sport is something that needs guarding from these stupid opinions that may one day become law and £30 isn't a lot to most of us. Anyone who fires a lot of centrefire ammo, clay or game shoots or pays for stalking, should be able to afford it. It may seem like a pointless expense now, but think how much money you'd all be saving if the sport was banned because we had nobody to fight our corner........Well worth a thought right?

 

I'm really enjoying this topic. I've talked to Mark a lot via PM since I started on here and he seems to be a really genuine guy. He's given me a lot of good advice (especially before I bought my Hornet). I'm really pleased to see that he's got what he asked for at last....It's taken long enough!

 

EDIT....If any of you wonder if rocking the boat with your FEO will make things hard for you, consider this...If things weren't hard already you wouldn't be considering it, what do you have to lose?

Edited August 12, 2009 by njc110381

[grasshopper]

Glad to here that you,ve finally got it all sorted after what seems like along time and a lot of effort Mark

[markbivvy]

Well done for getting it all sorted Mark. I've wondered for a long time why your force have treated you so badly, I've never heard of an experienced shooter being restricted the way you were!

 

From the day my FAC arrived I've never had a serious issue with my force. Now and again my requests have required a little backing up with evidence, but really that is fair. They're no push over but they will allow most things. The one exception is the .375H&H for Deer thing I went through a few months back. They didn't back down on that, but as deep down I couldn't stand up and say I "needed" it, there was little point in falling out over it. That was just me being greedy! Mark has been shooting for many more years than I have, so a .243 isn't really a lot to ask for!

 

I'm planning to join SACS myself. I think we all should. Now I may get comeback for this but I'm going to say it anyway....Why do we all seem to be looking out just for our own interests? As soon as Mark told me about his case I decided I'd lob a cheque for £30 their way. Not because I may need help in the future but because they've helped him already. Our sport is something that needs guarding from these stupid opinions that may one day become law and £30 isn't a lot to most of us. Anyone who fires a lot of centrefire ammo, clay or game shoots or pays for stalking, should be able to afford it. It may seem like a pointless expense now, but think how much money you'd all be saving if the sport was banned because we had nobody to fight our corner........Well worth a thought right?

 

I'm really enjoying this topic. I've talked to Mark a lot via PM since I started on here and he seems to be a really genuine guy. He's given me a lot of good advice (especially before I bought my Hornet). I'm really pleased to see that he's got what he asked for at last....It's taken long enough!

 

EDIT....If any of you wonder if rocking the boat with your FEO will make things hard for you, consider this...If things weren't hard already you wouldn't be considering it, what do you have to lose?

Top man Neil.

your a credit to the game.

as for

I've never heard of an experienced shooter being restricted the way you were!

a mate of mine 60 + years old has been shooting all his life, used to get his sgc from the post office for half a crown, he had open cert for donkeys years then packed it in for 18 months, when i got my fac he re applied for his for a 17 hmr and a 22 rimmie, they would not let him have both, had to pick one or the other, but being a chap who does not like to upset the cart, took it.

Sure the details of my first application are on here some place, had just as much trouble over getting a 223, my shooting organisation at the time with hindsight where as much good as tits on a man.