pumps

[Ozzy Fudd]

I agree, there are those out there that have worked hard, have a bit of money and have bought themselves some expensive gear to learn with. Good luck to them, I'm not an envious person.

 

In my experience, however, these are not people who are likely to take the **** out of anybody for using a pump. They tend to get on with it, quietly missing everything and probably enduring masses of scathing remarks and put downs from the pump/camo/Baikal/Escort/cloth cap/ex-SAS fantasist/***** oiks who resent them having an expensive gun.

 

 

i dont resent anyone having an expensive gun, and i dont think resentment was mentioned anywhere in this thread. and i dont find thats its new clay shooters who are the problem, its the older "indoctrinated" ones who look down on anything that isnt an expensive o/u - and yes, even my mate gets flak when he has his lanber out

 

the only person who said anything was Koz (who always says something), and even then it was the typical "they laughed at me so i beat them", and be honest, who has never been in that situation? i once had a guy looking down at me for using an old sbs, who then proceeded to shoot 12 out of 25 in dtl (and mine was 17). so what? are you going to tell me that someone has never said something smart to you at the clays, so youve swept the floor with them?! it doesnt happen all the time, but the times that it does happen are always remembered B)

 

so does that mean i could out shoot the national clay team? yes, if im having a great day and theyre all having **** ones, i possibly could, same as most people off this site. B)

[Chard]

The top and bottom of it is, in answer to the original poster :

 

Go for it, they're great guns for all sorts of reasons, and you should shoot pigeons OK with it, but it might take you a session or two to get proficient at cycling the next round smoothly and efficiently.

 

Don't get hung up on what people say about your gun. If they have a dig, tell them to **** off, but by the same token, don't turn into one of these survivalist bores, who thinks that anything without a pistol grip is a childs toy.

[throdgrain]

The top and bottom of it is, in answer to the original poster :

 

Go for it, they're great guns for all sorts of reasons, and you should shoot pigeons OK with it, but it might take you a session or two to get proficient at cycling the next round smoothly and efficiently.

 

Don't get hung up on what people say about your gun. If they have a dig, tell them to **** off, but by the same token, don't turn into one of these survivalist bores, who thinks that anything without a pistol grip is a childs toy.

 

 

Agreed B)

[Shuck.]

Yeah the comment I got was: why didn't you bring a proper gun? I was like: I bring what I want. After I got a few clays and they missed their targets with their precious Berettas, then they shutup.

 

I get this all the time, mostly in jest, followed up by comments of "How many shops have you held up with it" and, my personal favourite - "It's a Bank Robber's gun".

 

Its always frowned upon on this forum for some reason when people say it but: It's a great feeling to straight a stand after the guy who just told you to "Get a proper gun" gets a one

 

Yes, this person may well have proceeded to straight the remaining 94% but I don't remember that bit B)

 

One thing I have noticed on this site is most of the people I've read that have Pumps, also own a SxS. B)

Is it so that the shooting community doesn't shun them from their society? :o

 

 

Original post - If you want it because you like the action type go for it, if you want it just because its going cheap, have a final test of it to see if you like it

 

P.S. I enjoy watching someone shoot a fancy Over Under and enjoy shooting a few myself, sometimes. No bias here.

[darren m]

if i use my pump at the clay ground , i always get the banter but its just for fun where all good mates , most of them have a go with it anyway and love it . B)

 

get one try it , you can always sell it if you change your mind

[neil smith]

followed up by comments of "How many shops have you held up with it" and, my personal favourite - "It's a Bank Robber's gun".

 

I agree it can get a bit tiresome & of course its nowhere near the truth as we all know its the sawn off SxS thats the prefered bank robbers shotgun B)

 

I only have pump or auto shotguns now although I have had SxS & O/U in the past, they are not my cup of tea.

 

each to their own I say.

 

N

[Shuck.]

I agree it can get a bit tiresome & of course its nowhere near the truth as we all know its the sawn off SxS thats the prefered bank robbers shotgun

 

That's what I always say! There's no reasoning with them B)

 

 

I feel the people who make these kind of comments (not in jest, of course) are indeed as someone previously mentioned, in a way 'indoctrinated' in the persuasion of this action type.

I believe there are two types of people who make these kind of comments; the first is a long-standing shooter who may have issues of the new generations of shooters coming in to the sport, and who feels the loss of tradition will lead to the inevitable demise of shooting as a whole, in Britain.

The second, only owns an Over Under because a person/group of people that they look up to, own one, and have been drilling it into their system that there is only one worthwhile action, not because they personally find that the pro's of this action outweigh that of say - a P/A.

[Harnser]

I had an 870 wingmaster trombone gun for many years and shot just about everything with it ,including driven pheasants .

Just loved the gun .

Harnser .

Edited August 24, 2009 by Harnser

[mossy835]

now the 870 wingmaster is a very good pump action,i had one wish i never got rid of it,i had a mossberg 835 that was like swinging a tree trunk about.

[throdgrain]

I had an 870 wingmaster trombone gun for many years and shot just about everything with it ,including driven pheasants .

Just loved the gun .

Harnser .

 

 

Can't argue with that, a lovely gun.

[Guest]

"...enduring masses of scathing remarks and put downs from the pump/camo/Baikal/Escort/cloth cap/ex-SAS fantasist/***** oiks who resent them having an expensive gun."

 

I don't resent anyone having a Beretta, I would love to have a Beretta Extrema 2 FAC version but I lack in the financial department.

 

Also I also own an O/U because when I first started shooting I thought it would be easier to shoot, clean and dissassemble one. I have a friend that has just started shooting and has gone straight away to buying a semi-auto which in my opinion is bad since you need the over and under to familiarise yourself with the gun and it is much easier to be safe with it. But each to their own.

[Chard]

"...enduring masses of scathing remarks and put downs from the pump/camo/Baikal/Escort/cloth cap/ex-SAS fantasist/***** oiks who resent them having an expensive gun."

 

I don't resent anyone having a Beretta, I would love to have a Beretta Extrema 2 FAC version but I lack in the financial department.

 

Also I also own an O/U because when I first started shooting I thought it would be easier to shoot, clean and dissassemble one. I have a friend that has just started shooting and has gone straight away to buying a semi-auto which in my opinion is bad since you need the over and under to familiarise yourself with the gun and it is much easier to be safe with it. But each to their own.

 

So why do you sneeringly describe them as "precious" Berettas. There's nothing precious about Berettas, they're middle-of-the-road average guns. The Ford Mondeos of the shotgun world.

 

I think you have a LARGE chip on your shoulder

Edited August 24, 2009 by Chard

[Guest]

You assume too much.

 

I only described them as "precious Berettas" to explain some of the mentality of the shooting arrogant folk who look down upon you if you turn up to the clay ground with anything less than one. I got nothing agains the Beretta, just against the arrogant guy who can tell me what to own/

[neil smith]

This thread & others stand as proof that we really are far to concerned with the "type" of gun you turn up at a shoot with, to my mind if I want to use a pump gun at a clay shoot why shouldn't I ?

 

If the gun is capable of hitting the targets surely it should be of no concern to anyone elses what we choose to use.

 

so what if an O/U shooter wins the match, after all someone has to win at the end of the day, but as long as I am safe & enjoy myself why should anyone else care what gun I want to use.

 

In another thread we are asked "What can we do for shooting sports" here is my suggestion, at the next shoot Instead if sniping comments & "just joking" remarks aimed at the guy with an auto or pump, stop & do the sport a favour, & just leave them alone to enjoy the shoot.

 

N

Edited August 24, 2009 by neil smith

[Shuck.]

Following on from what Neil said, some clubs, I've heard, actually segregate Pump Action users throwing the lazy accusation that they are a more dangerous/less safe shotgun then Semi Auto actions.

I've actually heard this type of thing from two people, one actually told me that his local club disallows the use of pumps but not semi's because 'You can't see if the chamber is empty as there isn't a bolt' - and this came from a man who's been shooting a lot longer then me and actually owned a club I believe at one point.

 

It's this kind of indoctrination that allows people to have these negative opinions and the only effects of these ill-informed views are detrimental to shooting sports in general for reasons of giving ammo to the antis and breaking up the level of community which is an integral ally to keep shooting on the map.

 

Last thing I remember reading about Pump Actions was I believe on the CPSA site, "Pump actions are generally considered unsuitable for Clay Shooting".

 

O.K I understand you are from the PSG side of things, but that seems a bit opinionated to me, and while this statement isn't saying anything along the lines of this action type being 'dangerous' or 'unsafe', it doesn't do any favors to the Pump-users.

[poontang]

Last thing I remember reading about Pump Actions was I believe on the CPSA site, "Pump actions are generally considered unsuitable for Clay Shooting".

 

O.K I understand you are from the PSG side of things, but that seems a bit opinionated to me, and while this statement isn't saying anything along the lines of this action type being 'dangerous' or 'unsafe', it doesn't do any favors to the Pump-users.

 

Not opinionated, just fact. The CPSA are all about competition shooting, and pumps, although a fun gun are not suitable for serious competition. It's all about using the right tool for the job. Would you use an o/u or sxs for PSG? I've shot at quite a few clay grounds and have NEVER come across any kind of 'snobbery' regarding pumps/semi's. I use semi's for all my shooting and have never had so much as a sideways glance, but then i don't go looking for a reaction!!

[MC]

Following on from what Neil said, some clubs, I've heard, actually segregate Pump Action users throwing the lazy accusation that they are a more dangerous/less safe shotgun then Semi Auto actions.

I've actually heard this type of thing from two people, one actually told me that his local club disallows the use of pumps but not semi's because 'You can't see if the chamber is empty as there isn't a bolt' - and this came from a man who's been shooting a lot longer then me and actually owned a club I believe at one point.

 

It's this kind of indoctrination that allows people to have these negative opinions and the only effects of these ill-informed views are detrimental to shooting sports in general for reasons of giving ammo to the antis and breaking up the level of community which is an integral ally to keep shooting on the map.

 

Last thing I remember reading about Pump Actions was I believe on the CPSA site, "Pump actions are generally considered unsuitable for Clay Shooting".

 

O.K I understand you are from the PSG side of things, but that seems a bit opinionated to me, and while this statement isn't saying anything along the lines of this action type being 'dangerous' or 'unsafe', it doesn't do any favors to the Pump-users.

 

 

I am quite sure that if you went on the PSG website somewhere along the line they would tell you that an O/U or S/S is unsuitable for practical shotgunning as well.

 

It is not prejudice, it is fact.

[Jim Sarakun]

So why do you sneeringly describe them as "precious" Berettas. There's nothing precious about Berettas, they're middle-of-the-road average guns. The Ford Mondeos of the shotgun world.

 

I think you have a LARGE chip on your shoulder

 

That is just not true. Baldric and I have all the chips.

[neil smith]

I am quite sure that if you went on the PSG website somewhere along the line they would tell you that an O/U or S/S is unsuitable for practical shotgunning as well.

 

It is not prejudice, it is fact.

 

MC

 

That is actually incorrect, we dont recommend you use SxS or O/U because if too many people turned up with them the competition would run behind & never get finished, but we do not stop anyone from using them if they really want to, of course you would probably end up in last place but as long as your safe we wouldn't mind, in fact some IPSC regions like Australia have to use them for PSG.

 

I think the CPSA is more concerned about its image with regard to pumps, the gun is suitable for clays, perhaps not at the top level but at a local club shoot they are fine, they just dont want them.

 

Shooting has always had people in both camps the traditionalists who dont want to move with the times & the younger people coming into the shooting sports who want something more interesting than is on offer, change will be slow but it will happen.

 

The Benelli event which allowed the use of 3 cartridges was a success & I dont see why pumps couldn't be included in future, after all Benelli make a rather good one.

 

N

Edited August 25, 2009 by neil smith

[MC]

How can it be incorrect?

 

You say in the first line of your post that they you don't recomend them. So they are unsuitable. It may not say it in those exact words, but in the same way the CPSA say that a pump is not really suitable for clay shooting. That is because it is true, If you had a very fast simo pair which you only saw for a couple of seconds you would never hit the second bird as you couldn't cycle it quick enough.

 

The day that George Digweed turns up at a world championship and wins with a pump will be the day that everyone goes and buys one and they become the new must have.

 

That will never happen as an O/U is the prefered gun for clay shooting, it is more practical and pointable and that is the reason that probably 85% of good clay shooters use one.

[neil smith]

MC

 

I couldn't care less what someone turns up to shoot with as long as they are safe & neither should anyone else, thats my point, a pump may not be the best gun available but what if that is the only gun someone has, are you going to say sorry mate you cant play with that here ? that is whats wrong with shooting in this country, it would not happen in other countries & its why there shooting communities are more united.

 

Also I dont want to argue about how fast a pump can be shot but we regularly hit 6 seperate targets in around 3 seconds, so two shots in 2 seconds almost gives you time to scratch you ar*e between shots

 

N

[MC]

I was talking about fast moving targets not a metal plate staked to the ground.

 

And if you can cycle 6 shots and get them all on target with a pump then you are some kind of super hero, the fastest semi autos ain't that quick

[Chard]

If I entered a PSG competition, I would want to win, or come somewhere, it's a competitive sport. Therefore I wouldn't bring a 2-shot gun, or a 3-shot gun for that matter. That makes both my guns "unsuitable".

 

Pumps are not the gun of choice if you want to win at clays, and that's why most people shoot clays. It's another competitive sport. If you're going to come anywhere and achieve anything, you need a suitable gun.

 

I'm afraid I still think that a lot of this interpretation of words such as "unsuitable" and the banter that goes on, is just people being too sensitive and taking offence at something that isn't intended. Even if there is a slight tongue-in-cheek intent to some of the banter, it isn't anything to get rattled about. There's a lot of tradition in shooting and people are starting to go against it and do their own thing and they must expect the odd comment, I just don't understand the hysteria

 

If your local clay ground is very traditional, perhaps like Churchills sounds, then they are probably going to resist your attempts to change things. This is a bit like the tweed argument recently. If you're invited on a pheasant shoot and you turn up in a shell-suit and baseball cap and trainers, touting a Mossberg, you're not going to be flavour of the month.

 

Like Poontang, my experience of doing my own thing on mainstream clay grounds, with a pump action, have been fine. I've had the jokes and comments, but didn't find them offensive.

[Ozzy Fudd]

How can it be incorrect?

 

You say in the first line of your post that they you don't recomend them. So they are unsuitable. It may not say it in those exact words, but in the same way the CPSA say that a pump is not really suitable for clay shooting. That is because it is true, If you had a very fast simo pair which you only saw for a couple of seconds you would never hit the second bird as you couldn't cycle it quick enough.

 

The day that George Digweed turns up at a world championship and wins with a pump will be the day that everyone goes and buys one and they become the new must have.

 

That will never happen as an O/U is the prefered gun for clay shooting, it is more practical and pointable and that is the reason that probably 85% of good clay shooters use one.

 

 

my pumps are extremely pointable (more so than any other gun ive used) and it takes me less than half a second to pump another cartridge through - during which time im acquiring the second target/clay/pigeon/crow, so as soon as ive pushed the slide forward im already on the target and ready to pull the trigger - yes, not quite as fast as a semi or an o/u, but ive never had any problems with it, and i also find that having that half second to acquire the next target improves my shooting

 

but maybe thats just me

Edited August 25, 2009 by babbyc1000

[neil smith]

And if you can cycle 6 shots and get them all on target with a pump then you are some kind of super hero, the fastest semi autos ain't that quick

 

MC

 

The semi auto boys can do 6 plates in the low 2s & do it regularly, just because you haven't seen it done, doesn't mean it cant be done.

 

Chard

 

Not everyone comes to win, I know a couple who go to every national PSG match & they always end up last but they enjoy themselves all the same, if they choose to use a SxS why shouldn't they ?

 

My point is you should be allowed to use whatever you choose & not be dictated to.

 

N

Edited August 25, 2009 by neil smith