.22 hornet vs .17hmr

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Hi all,

Considering swapping my .17hmr in for a .22 hornet. Has anybody got any views on this would it be a good move? My thinking was that the heavier bullet would not be as affected by cross winds aswell as it being a much more capable round for foxes. Also just getting into the whole reloading scene so I guess once set up it probally wouldn't cost much more than the hmr to feed.

Cheers in advance,

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[Mr_Logic]

If you're reloading, then the Hornet is the one to have. Ballistically it is similar to HMR, but it carries much more energy. Both calibres make a mess of a bunny, though Hornet slightly more so. If you head shoot, either one produces an edible rabbit.

 

HMR is not a fox calibre. Yes it does work, so long as you are either close for a body shot or put it in the head. Hornet is a proper fox calibre - nobody will argue about suitability and it does the job nicely to 150 yards.

 

In terms of feeding Hornet, I use 12.3 gr H110 with a 35gr hornady v-max bullet, COL IIRC is 1.725", brass Prvi, primer S&B (it's all they had!). I get muzzle velocity of 3075fps and groups of about 0.3 to 0.5 inch @ 100 yards. My rifle is a CZ527 that's been chopped to about 18-19"and re-crowned, and I've worked on the trigger (and I think the smith who cut it also did a bit too, it's fabulous!).

 

the brass cost me about £100 for 500 (I'm still on the first loading so they'll last a while!), powder is £38 for about 650 rounds, primer is about 2.5p each and bullet about 20p. So:

 

Powder 6p

Primer 2.5p

bullet 20p

Total 28.5p per round excluding brass (and my level of brass will last literally years for the level of shooting I do) HMR ammo seems to be 26p a bang nowadays, though some get it cheaper.

 

So in short, yes, a move to Hornet for a reloader is very sensible indeed - it is a much more capable calibre.

[hyflier]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

 

Have a click on here

 

Oooops......... Sorry; you said Hornet and not WMR didn't you?

Edited April 24, 2010 by hyflier

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Thats pretty much what I wanted to hear Mr Logic, thanks for an excellent reply it looks like i'll be filling out some forms then!!! :unsure: Just out of interest where did you purchase your brass from as I'm not sure my local shop stocks it?

Cheers

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[njc110381]

I'll back Mr Logic up on this one. The Hornet is a great replacement for the HMR if you reload. I had a Hornet myself, again a CZ and again cut down to 18". I also used 35grn V-Max but over 13grns of Lil-gun powder. I don't know the velocity but accuracy was up there at .5" or so at 100 yards when I did my bit. My longest bunny shot with it was 250 yards, and I did that several times.

 

Cost wise, my sums worked out about the same. The price of reloaded ammo was very similar to the HMR and I was really glad I swapped. You get so much more for your money if you don't mind putting in a bit of time making the ammo. Factory rounds were hugely expensive, right up there with the bigger centrefires. I paid £1 per round for Remington ammo once because the RFD had signed it on to my FAC before he told me the price! Never again, that's all I can say!

 

I still shoot a Hornet based round now, the .17AH. I went for that because it came along at a great price and I wanted to try it but that was the only reason. I didn't get rid of the .22H because I didn't like it, it was a brilliant little rifle.

 

One thing I will add is that if you do go for the Hornet, try to get a CZ. You hear a lot of scare stories about the Hornet being inaccurate and people just can't get them to shoot sometimes. All sorts of rifle manufacturers (some quite expensive ones too) pop up in these rants, but never CZs. For several reasons the CZs just shoot so much better. I'll not bother to list them here, just take my word for it that they're the best option! :unsure:

Edited April 24, 2010 by njc110381

[hyflier]

In a poor attempt at self redemption:

 

http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/guns/131461...bre_review.html

 

The comparison between the 17 HMR is included here too, note the paragraph on wind-drift :unsure:

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Cheers Hiflier,

Consider yourself redeemed, a very usefull article indeed.

njc110381 thanks for the input I think the CZ is the only way I would go anyhow, both my rimmies are CZ's and I can't fault them there are just superb :unsure:

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[Evil Elvis]

:unsure: Ive got both and I love them both !!! How are you getting the .222 cheaper? are you home loading?

[SSS]

Too many calibres, too little time.If I had my way, I would have a signature like steve_b_wales :unsure:

[Mr_Logic]

Bought my brass mail order from henry Krank's, www.henrykrank.co.uk

 

Agree with NJC - CZ is the rifle for you. Mine had been abused by a gamekeeper for many years ahead of me. Barrel, through no fault of maintenance, was OK, but the action had some rust etc. After an evening with some oil and various brushes it cleaned up well. CZs just work, they are good guns (though very picky with ammo - my Hornet ONLY likes the 35gr v-max, and my 223 only likes the 50 grain v-max or blitzking, and it's very picky on powder too - give it BLC2 and the 50gr vmax goes from a ragged hole to a 2-inch pattern!)

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Thanks Mr Logic, I'll have a look at henry's site. I have to agree my CZ's are fantastic they were born to shoot and thats all they want to do, regardless of how they are treated!!!!!

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[njc110381]

I didn't find my Hornet that fussy. It shot both 35grn V-max and 45grn S&B softpoints very well. I think the trick with the Hornet is to make sure you use the stubby nosed bullets. I'm pretty sure they have a 1-16 rifling twist which is far too slow to keep the longer bullets stable.

 

Having said that I never really tried that many others. The 52grn A-Max shot badly but wouldn't mag feed anyway due to the length. My .223 shot pretty much everything I fed it into one hole at 100 yards?!

[al4x]

personally I'd keep the HMR for bunnies and get a bigger .22cf for foxes. It depends if you're a casual bunny basher or shoot many as go out and shoot 50 centrefire rounds in an evening and you'll have a rather hot barrel. If you don't have many about then you can use something bigger

[Mr_Logic]

al4x, you really won't have a hot barrel with Hornet. Agree with a 223 or whatever, but I've got through that many in quick succession and the Hornet isn't especially warm.

 

Most of the time, calibres aren't 'better' than any other, but Hornet/HMR is the exception.

 

Hornet is similar ballistically and in terms of noise, meaning their usage situations are comparable, yet it's more powerful so can be used on fox. Destruction on rabbits is also similar, so I am forced to conclude that, if you reload, Hornet is simply better than HMR.

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Hi al4x, I've already got the .223 as a serious foxing tool and I must say it does a bang on job at that. When I'm out on a proper rabbit session I will usually take the .22lr as that costs peanuts to fire, my thinking with the hornet was kind of a happy medium between the two, as well as being able to reload.

cheers

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[andythechicken]

Hi

 

Just want to add my comments. I had an Anchutz1517 HMR and found at distance affected too much by wind. Also Surrey would not allow it for fox.

 

I purchsed njc110381 .22Hornet and have started loading my own following his recipe. Very accurate rifle, great for bunnies. Don't notice it being louder than the HMR either. Thoroughly recomend changing.

 

Andy

[hyflier]

Ok, I am an HMR owner and accept all comments in favour of the Hornet being as cheap as 17 HMR ammo if you re-load.

 

How much ammo do you need to re-load to re-coup the cost of the re-loading equipment?

[Mr_Logic]

Well give or take, you can reload Hornet for about 200 quid, so at £1 a bang for factory (Prvi is cheaper, but might not work) so I make that roughly 300 rounds, be a bit less. Please bear in mind I only checked this thread as I got a call from work so have been awake about 5 mins!

[Evil Elvis]

I think theres a place for them both, I was going to buy a hornet but tried my hand at getting a .222 and was given it. Barely louder than athe hmr but dearer to run, wont be plinking many bunnies with it!! I got the .222 purely as Essex dont officially like hmr used for fox.

 

My old feo said if you are out bunny bashing and you shoot one....all good and well, but I wont put it on your ticket, he also said the same about the .22lr.

 

My new feo doesnt like the hmr and I heard him publically say he wanted it banned in a gunshop when he didnt realise there was anyone else in the shop.

 

I personally think it is a much maligned and very underated round, perhaps being an airgun shooter for years I am good at calculating hold over without much effort and adjusting for wind, I have taken many many bunnies well in excess of 200 yards, I believe that most people just use it as just another "rimmie" without pushing it to see what its capable of.

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Don't get me wrong Eliv Elvis I think my HMR is fantasic, it's just I fancy a change and something I can reload. In an ideal world I'd have both but I'm not sure I'd get away with it!!!

Cheers

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[tweedledee]

i use a hmr.nice round on a good day, not so nice on a blustry day.it`s reasonable to fodder.i reckon it`s worth a place in my cabinet as stepping up to centrefire means a lot of money to sink in reloading gear or expensive rounds.

[al4x]

bores me senseless the wind argument as its all bull, compare it to the .22lr not a centrefire and its not bad at all in wind. Yes it costs about the same as a shotgun to feed but big whopee who is too tight to pay for shotgun cartridges

 

what it does well is kill rabbits, we go out and we have at least an 80% kill ratio sometimes a lot higher and have had 100% on a few nice occasions, the Vmax bullets are very effective and you just buy a box and off you go sub inch accuracy at 100 yards is plenty good enough for bunnies. The power levels are also good to my mind and I will use mine in places I wouldn't use either a .22lr or centrefire. Ok you can get better and I could reload my .223 for a similar cost but really wouldn't want to put the amount of ammo through it. Personally if I had it and a deer legal centrefire I'd be happy with two guns for my shooting and have most bases covered. Obviously if you reload and don't use the gun a lot then a hornet is an option but when its busy we can do 200-300 rounds a month and personally i don't want to reload that much

[Lez325]

I think theres a place for them both, I was going to buy a hornet but tried my hand at getting a .222 and was given it. Barely louder than athe hmr but dearer to run, wont be plinking many bunnies with it!! I got the .222 purely as Essex dont officially like hmr used for fox.

 

My old feo said if you are out bunny bashing and you shoot one....all good and well, but I wont put it on your ticket, he also said the same about the .22lr.

 

My new feo doesnt like the hmr and I heard him publically say he wanted it banned in a gunshop when he didnt realise there was anyone else in the shop.

 

I personally think it is a much maligned and very underated round, perhaps being an airgun shooter for years I am good at calculating hold over without much effort and adjusting for wind, I have taken many many bunnies well in excess of 200 yards, I believe that most people just use it as just another "rimmie" without pushing it to see what its capable of.

 

try getting hold of a box of 222 Prvi ammo £7 a box here in Somerset - my rifles loves them( CZ 527)

 

Les

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Well I've just spoken to my FEO and he's more than happy to grant the variation he even said I could keep the HMR if I wanted . However just to throw a spanner in the works he suggested that I might want to consider one of the .17 centrefires as I've already got the .223? So what do you guys think, has anyone got any experience with any of the .17 centrefires they'd like to share? From what I can find on t'internet they can be pretty handy bits of kit but I'd love to hear some first hand experience.

Cheers

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[MC]

It has to be the .17HMR without doubt, they have a totally flat trajectory out to about 3000 yards, easily go through trees and railway sleepers, not to mention the old steel plate.

 

I understand the british army are equipping all their snipers with this exceptional little round, as it is so good.