rob13 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 i have applied for a .22-250 for the purpose of fox and other vermin would this cover muntjac because they do so much damage to crops and i would like to shoot them for the farmer as he does too answers only plz Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Sam Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Depends on the Force. Phone up your local FEO and ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think you'll find you'll have to get deer put on your ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Sam Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Except.... that some forces have classed them as vermin and are saying that if you have fox you can shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Except.... that some forces have classed them as vermin and are saying that if you have fox you can shoot them. WRONG, please get your facts right before posting. Muntjac are deer, have always been deer, and are NOT classed as vermin. Some forces are saying that you do not have to have deer on your cert to shoot them, BUT you must adhere to the deer laws if you do shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) Getting a 22.250 at your age is almost impossible rob13 Edited February 28, 2008 by beatingisbest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdwillis Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) because they do so much damage to crops Muntjac are not vermin! they also do little damage to crops. "although there is any number of market gardeners who will argue the point, agricultural damage is not a huge problem...very frequently muntjac seen feeding in crops are actually selecting out other plants that grow among them". The damage is to bluebells/ground fauna, and thinning out woodland to the extent that Roe deer, ground nesting birds, small mammals, and invertabrates find there habitat disapearing. Just happen to be reading 'Muntjac' by Charles Smith-Jones. His words not mine! Good luck though... Edited February 29, 2008 by tjdwillis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 in the basc magazine last month it stated that if the muntjac were causing damage to crops then you could use a sg legal ... but it must be down to crop damage .... I have a friend who grow xmas trees and they eat the tops off them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 i have applied for a .22-250 for the purpose of fox and other vermin would this cover muntjac because they do so much damage to crops and i would like to shoot them for the farmer as he does too answers only plz Thanks OK as it has been explained to me, this will be different for you... I didn't have Muntjac/CWD on my FAC against my .223, but I do have deer against my 6.5. I was told that I could shoot Muntjac/CWD with my .223 without sending my certificate in for the condition to be added, more to do with backlog than anything else I would imagine. My FAC is currently on an extended holiday in Kiddlington, when it comes back it will have that condition added. As Browning has stated, none of this means they are vermin, they are, and always will be deer. So the short answer is, no, I don't think you will get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) We had this argument on the Guntrader site and it has confused many shooters. Some owners of .22 CF rifles have the impression that they can now shoot deer because they have read that the ACPO will NOT press charges against anyone who hasn’t sent their ticket in to get it amended for .22CF. But it is still law that you must already have “Deer†on your ticket (for an existing calibre such as .243/.308 etc) before you can then use a .22 CF calibre without that condition. I can see some people getting all sorts of grief over this one because the ACPO haven’t explained it properly. I even PM’d Mike Everleigh (BASC) and even HE was hedging his bets on this one, and wasn’t really willing to give a definite answer on this due to the ambiguousness of the wording. Take care on this one, because you can easily fall foul of the law on this. G.M. Edited February 29, 2008 by Graham M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 This is exactly what I feared when it was first mooted that .22cf rifles should be permitted for use on the smaller deer. The poor old Muntjac would, be in some peoples eyes, relegated to "vermin". As others have said they are deer, always have been and always will be. They are a very sporting quarry that do little damage to agricultural crops such as corn or grass but can devastate young trees and nursery stock by nipping the growing tip out. Like all other deer they come under the "Deer Act", prospective stalkers should read this act to make sure they are shooting within the law. For reasons of expediency the ACPO have stated that upto renewal current fac holders who have deer on their ticket may use their .22cf'c for these deer. On renewal they must apply for and be granted this condition for their .22cf to be able to continue to use it. New applicants must apply for deer from the outset. Nowhere does it say or was it suggested that Muntjac and CWD could be shot under the term "vermin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Except.... that some forces have classed them as vermin and are saying that if you have fox you can shoot them. WRONG, please get your facts right before posting. Muntjac are deer, have always been deer, and are NOT classed as vermin. Some forces are saying that you do not have to have deer on your cert to shoot them, BUT you must adhere to the deer laws if you do shoot them. This is exactly what I feared when it was first mooted that .22cf rifles should be permitted for use on the smaller deer. The poor old Muntjac would, be in some peoples eyes, relegated to "vermin". As others have said they are deer, always have been and always will be. They are a very sporting quarry that do little damage to agricultural crops such as corn or grass but can devastate young trees and nursery stock by nipping the growing tip out. Like all other deer they come under the "Deer Act", prospective stalkers should read this act to make sure they are shooting within the law. For reasons of expediency the ACPO have stated that upto renewal current fac holders who have deer on their ticket may use their .22cf'c for these deer. On renewal they must apply for and be granted this condition for their .22cf to be able to continue to use it. New applicants must apply for deer from the outset. Nowhere does it say or was it suggested that Muntjac and CWD could be shot under the term "vermin" yep, that says it all, I would argue the damage to crops part of the post, but the legal aspect is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Yes, as others have rightly said, if you own a deer stalking rifle & you also own a .22 c/f, you can now shoot munties & CWD with the .22c/f, on your next renewal deer will automatically be added to your ticket. But if you don't have deer at the moment, & you already own a .22 c/f, don't be misled into thinking that you can now legally shot deer because you can't, & don't expect deer to be automatically granted on your renewal because it's not going to happen. I don't mean to sound bombastic or a know-all because I'm neither, but I have a few m8's who now thought they could shoot deer & after making their own enquires have found the can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I would be surprised if deer were automatically added at renewal, which brings up a new point. If you have a .22CF and don't ask for deer to be added at renewal then I assume if you then shoot muntjack you are in Breach of conditions, even though you could before renewal. Good this gun law makes perfect sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I would be surprised if deer were automatically added at renewal, which brings up a new point. If you have a .22CF and don't ask for deer to be added at renewal then I assume if you then shoot muntjack you are in Breach of conditions, even though you could before renewal. Good this gun law makes perfect sense [/quote Deer is only automatically added to a .22 c/f if you ALREADY have deer on a deer cal. if you haven't already got deer on your ticket then you can't shoot any deer at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Sam Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Clear as mud then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 How much plainer do you want it, if you want to shoot ANY deer, you MUST have Deer on your ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 . . and 3mm diameter plastic balls is not a deer legal round, no matter how fast they leave the barrel, before anyone asks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Except.... that some forces have classed them as vermin and are saying that if you have fox you can shoot them. WRONG, please get your facts right before posting. And you. It's a recommendation from ACPO because the amount of variations needed to existing certs would be an admin nightmare haven't you been following the latest deer legislation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 My FEO told me not to send in my cert for muntie and cwd to be added , and i would be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Except.... that some forces have classed them as vermin and are saying that if you have fox you can shoot them. WRONG, please get your facts right before posting. And you. It's a recommendation from ACPO because the amount of variations needed to existing certs would be an admin nightmare haven't you been following the latest deer legislation? Have you? I'd be very interested to see where in the deer legislation it states that Muntjac are vermin??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 My FEO told me not to send in my cert for muntie and cwd to be added , and i would be ok Do you have deer against any other calibre you own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Except.... that some forces have classed them as vermin and are saying that if you have fox you can shoot them. WRONG, please get your facts right before posting. And you. It's a recommendation from ACPO because the amount of variations needed to existing certs would be an admin nightmare haven't you been following the latest deer legislation? Have you? I'd be very interested to see where in the deer legislation it states that Muntjac are vermin??? Never said they were but if you've munty legal C/F for vermin ACPO said that that will suffice for shooting smaller deer and they wouldn't chase you for breaking your conditions. Not sure though if it goes on to say you need deer on your cert already (obviously .240 upwards). Didn't need to look into that as already have deer. If ACPO say how it should be for now does anyone KNOW of a police force that think different? Does anyone have a definitive answer or it as ambiguous as the rest of shooting type legislation? But in answer to your question, yes as far as it applies to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trollhunter Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 I have a friend who grow xmas trees and they eat the tops off them sorry roadkill to ask so late but would like to know more and what species of tree and how old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 My FEO told me not to send in my cert for muntie and cwd to be added , and i would be ok i Seriously wouldn't like to put it to the test Rob - Just get your variation in and buy a nice big calibre, you know you want too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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