minghis

Without wishing to defend Barbour I do feel many of the issues are likely to be due to fake product. There is an awful lot of it out there.

So, as most rimfire rabbit shooters I favour subsonic as it's quiet and accurate. All well and good until your permission has rabbits that get very, very shy and then your distances extend. Then, unless you're a flexible ground crawling silent type that has the stealth of a ninja and the patience of a saint it's very difficult to get within 100 yards or more. In the past when this happens I've switched to HV's, usually Winchester Lazers or similar. Wait for a nice day, go through the whole zeroing process (usually about 14 clicks up) and just accept a bit more noise. The farmer doesn't mind the noise and it tends to keep the dog walkers and trespassers away anyway. The disadvantage is, however, that accuracy is affected. My usual nice tight groups with the subs when zeroed at 75 paces do open up a bit but not perhaps as badly as I read about on here and elsewhere. What it does allow is me to kill out to 100 - 120 yards where the subs are a bit out of range. And, to be honest, I quite like the 'real bullet' noise! Question is, do you do the same or stick to subs all the time? Is it true that HV's are really that less accurate or is it all down to the brand used? Be keen to know the thoughts of others.

A quandary for sure. If it was me I'd keep away, for no other reason than it's a cemetery and there will be people visiting graves and probably actual funerals too. Could be perceived as disrespectful?

Interesting you say that, I had a couple do exactly the same last time I was out - I put it down to getting a stray HV in my pocket but perhaps not...

I get most of my permissions by word of mouth, one farmer telling another I have done a good job. Cold calling on other farms for permissions is not easy but a couple of things make it easier (based on rabbit shooting): Prospect the target farm by having a look to see what damage is being done and where the rabbits are, usually with a lamp after dark (sensibly, of course) gives the best idea. Be specific - using the information gained from the first point you can say to the farmer 'You've got a lot of rabbits in so and so location, can I clear a few of them for you?' This targeted approach is better than just asking if you can shoot on the land. Name drop when you get a chance - 'I used to do a lot for John Smith but he's moved on' helps as farmers all know each other. Do some research first - does he play skittles? Go racing? Have anyone else shooting? All this helps. Know a little about farming topics - milk prices, crop prices, cattle types and so on so that IF a conversation happens you can at least fill the awkward moments when you have nothing to say. Most farmers I know are a bit quiet and tend to not be leading the conversations. If you get a 'bite' don't lose it as quickly as you got it! ALWAYS offer (I insist) on having a map or something showing boundaries. If you can get a drive around with the farmer it will break the ice. ALWAYS offer (again, I insist) to call to let them know when you are shooting. And (this is an issue around some of the land I shoot) always ask if any land is rented, as some rented land has others shooting it under permission from the owner... this can get messy, and dangerous... Good luck!

Sorry to be blunt but I believe you just have to accept this and get on with whatever you do without having a SG certificate. It's not the end of the world is it? To go to prison for that length of time is obviously the over riding factor here and if you are of the inclination to assault/beat/hurt someone quite badly then there is and must be concern about your suitability. I assume you were guilty of the offence and weren't innocent? Lions DO change their spots, I've seen it. You may well be completely safe. But on the balance of risk, I can see why you've not been granted.

Another vote for Aigle Parcours. Try Mole Valley for prices and at least you can try them on to get the right size unlike the on line sellers. I have seen others with Le Chameaus that always seem to split around by the heel. Tried Muck Boots but too heavy and the upper bit ripped as soon as it caught a bramble.

I've ended up with a pocket full of .22LR Eley subs as the stupid plastic tray 'dispenser' they come in lost its lid and they all fell out. All 50 of them. Being generally lazy I elected not to stand there feeding them back, one by one into the plastic box as I guessed that if it happened once it could happen again, so I left them there. Other than the obvious storage issues with them being not in the cabinet, would leaving them in the pocket for the next couple of trips and just taking a few at a time to top up the magazine be the end of the world? It's a clean and dry pocket. Tempted to just leave them there! Incidentally, because of the stupid hard plastic containers what make them rattle when walking, as well as the added issue of the lid coming off I don't think I'll be buying Eleys any more. Back to the cardboard boxed ones for me.

I have a 686 Special (never really understood what the 'special' meant) but its a 28" fixed choke made in 1983 according to the marks. Superb gun, never missed a beat and looks like new even after all this time. I paid £525 for it from Sportsmans Southern Counties Ground shop 10 years ago. I believe from what I'm seeing here I either got a bargain or they've appreciated in value! I will never sell mine, I can't see anything beating it in terms of fit or quality, within reason of course.

I hear the shop will stay open, not sure if its true. As for the reasons I also heard (as you do) that they'd invested too much money into the hotel there as they thought they were going to be favoured with the Olympics but that went elsewhere. Apparently they've been having a lot of complaints about the noise from locals, not that there are that many!

It varies. How used they are to people, how often they get shot at and when all makes a difference. Later the better in winter, at least 2 hours after dark.

Yes, oops!. That's what happens trying to post so early in the morning...

Aigle parcours for me. Strong and comfortable. Have heard no complaints about them, yet have heard about splitting problems with the LeChameau.

Lyalvale Express Supreme Game 32g 5's (fibre wad).

Try holding the switch down, this is, as far as I recall from reading reviews on this torch is the 'boost' or brightest function. I may be wrong, but worth a try.

Sportsmans Gun Centre, Exeter. Loads of 'em. Even they were a bit bemused as to what difference there was between them (other than the obvious weight) as apparently Winchester are running both, the 42Max and the original ones.

Update - went to the gun shop - no Eleys, short supply, no one can get them blah blah blah. Ended up with a slab of Winchester 'new' subs - 42 grain. £42.50 for 500 which I thought was reasonable. I've used the original Winchester Subs (40 grain) in the past, gun shop reckons not much difference in these, anyone used them?

Thanks all, that helps. Around £50 for 500 decent quality is what I'll aim for. Excuse the pun....

I'm going to have to get some subs this week, I'm on Eleys currently and am quite happy to stick with them. Question is, how much are /have you paid recently for a brick of 500, Eleys, Winchesters etc. It would be noce to have some sort of benchmark as very few dealers advertise their prices and I don't want to get fleeced. Thanks in advance!

Eley - no problems, yet... All my shooting buddies swear by Winchesters and use nothing else. To be honest I change to HV's (Winchester Lazers) as soon as spring comes and go back to subs for the winter.

Grrrr. Any body else noticed an increase of people mooching around on their permissions recently? I had a group of 6 metal detecting chaps wandering all over one farm the other night, they were friendly enough but it meant I had to abort and move on as they were literally all over the place and it would have been dangerous to carry on. They had asked the farmer and he'd said yes, so at least they asked but I don't think he expected them to split up and cover every inch of land. Then I have this lovely other bit of land which has become something of a 'find' for dog walkers and despite me politely suggesting they'd be better off on a footpath as, err, I'm shooting here.. the message didn't sink in other than the most prolific one now wears a hi-viz vest as he now thinks I will see him and all will be ok... great. Bl**dy dogs running all over and now hi-viz vests aren't going to scare the rabbits away are they! I've just been to another permission to 'touch base' with the farmer and what did I see when driving up to the farm.... another bl**dy metal detector! And just to top it all off I have a regular horse rider thundering around another quiet bit of land every time I seem to be there... it's becoming ever more difficult to find somewhere quiet. I'm sure it never used to be like this.

Another vote for Aigle Parcours, try Mole Valley for prices if you have one near you. Best wellies I've ever had and I've had plenty.

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Having not been out since harvest I find myself with a day free so thought a trip around one of my permissions with the shot gun is in order! I usually shoot it with the Rimfire but summer only so I'm not sure what to expect. However, it's a bit wet and windy and I'm aiming to go out mid afternoon for a stroll around to see what I can find. It's a mixture of land with a tree lined stream and a copse that is usually good for roosting pigeon in the summer. Plenty of rabbits but not in the daytime and a rookery just off the land so under a route the rooks usually take when they're moving around. I'm taking a pocketful of 30g number 5's as that's all I've got. In this weather, blustery with showers, is there any point and what could I expect? Any ideas?

They are in my opinion more accurate than the Winchesters, and they do smell good. Only bugbear is the plastic slide top box which is too noisy in the field.