panoma1

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Does anyone know which and how many wildlife protectionist bodies/charities such as RSPB, WWT etc. Have responded in support of NE's proposals regarding the inclusion of the greylag and mallard on a GL?

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Because they don't want to be seen as controversial and risk their cosy institutional existence, gold plated pensions and inflated salaries NE/EA as a government quango prefer to listen to benign bunny hugger types and protectionist organisations/charities who are seen by Joe public as conservationists and consequently presumed to be good for the natural world so anything they want (or don't want!) must be right!...........on the other hand shooters are seen as destructive and detrimental to the natural world because they kill birds and animals...........so anything the shooting community suggests/wants is suspicious, is treated with disdain......and seen as self interest.

I am on my third pair of Brasher countryman goretex shoes! two pairs have worn out but the gortex liner was still watertight when they went in the bin! and I just maintained em like ordinary shoes.......with shoe polish! To protect the guarantee I treat my Meindl Dovre boots with Meindle's own wax. P1

David BASC is, on his own admission not a wildfowler, presumably the Greylag proposals on the GL will not affect him personally?........so why has he spent many hours in time, at all hours of the day stonewalling all and any negative postings on BASC's position? As for the chairs performance at the Wildfowling conference he lost control of the floor in the Q & A, session when RA got insistently uppity with GB and tried to shout (raised his voice) him down to shut him up!..........like an Alpha male putting a lesser member of the pack in his place!! I am still trying to understand why BASC has taken this apparently unmoveable position, and seemingly is determined to hold it at all costs? I am not persuaded by (I am suspicious of!!) David BASC persistently arguing against every point made by people who oppose the inclusion of the Greylag on a GL irrespective of its merit, apparently for the sake of it! P1

I find that delayed action with original Hevi-shot! I know the goose is hit..........20yds on they just collapse stone dead! sorry for digressing! P1

Drab colours, fieldcraft and keeping still........the pattern of cammo is pretty much irrelevant

Apparently extended chokes are more likely to sustain any damage (bulging) occurring from using big steel shot, whereas flush chokes if similarly damaged........will beggar (bulge) the guns barrels too?

David Thank you for your patronising reply, but I would be obliged if you would respond and comment on the actual content of my posting!! or on second thoughts do not bother! my posting contains rhetorical questions to which we both know the answers!! and I doubt I will get a straight response/opinion/comment as I suspect from your overall evasiveness throughout this thread that you have no brief other than to defend BASC's party line..... P1

Well that says it all!......"we will carry on being driven by the members that are elected" elected by whom, the membership? are these the same council members who once elected are unaccountable because they agree policy behind closed doors apparantly by "consensus" claiming "collective responsibility" ie. without a vote? and thus cannot be individually held to account by the membership who elect them?!

On the xtrema the sling is fitted to a ring that fits behind the forend retaining cap......

744 posting so far on this issue on Pigeon watch and the Wildfowling forum.........take out the one or two (at most) supportive of BASC's policy in this matter, and the defensive BASC employees comments..............and you still have a substantial number of angry and dissatisfied Members!!! What you gonna do BASC? Just carry on? ignore opinion? tread water? hope it goes away?

I disc cut the shelf out of the top of mine to fit long barrelled guns!! easy-peasey! now I can get my 4 bore in it!

And the last one is still on the lead ammunition group.........................the new CEO isn't, so who's voice is being heard?

One Arm?

Now I suspect we are getting close to the real reason for this proposal!

Because we as licensed gun owners are easy to find and cheap for the authorities to regulate and control!......... anything that costs money and/or other resources or is too difficult to enforce (or doesn't suit a purpose)...............the authorities ain't interested!....for example: the authorities will legislate to control/regulate legal gun owners because it is easy and they want to be seen doing something when an incident occurs (and as another insult they now want us to pay for our own regulation via a massive increase in gun license fees) but they don't do beggar all about illegal gun ownership because its too difficult and who will pay for it?

PC1 With 50 g of 3.5 ITM out of my double Full choke Midland 3" Magnum a couple of years ago I scored a R & L at Big Canada's (the two weighed just short of 29lbs!!) on the shore with the wind up their ****s both stone dead in the air!.......so yes I rate ITM in 12 bore!.............that was after my mate had missed them both barrels with his 10 bore!! ....but I only use Hevi-shot out of the 12 bore these days. Why Us recipes?....because US steel recipes are not fettered by European CIP regs!! P1

PC1 As a Wildfowler I have tried just about every type of non-tox shot available since the lead shot ban, I purchased a fair quantity of Hevi from the US when the exchange rate was favourable, and still have a fair bit left! I tried ITM when it first came available, and I rate it as the best for the eight bores, particularly in 4.0mm, for geese.......I have squirrelled enough away from various sources to keep the old Double Tolley fed and probably see me out! If I had to I would use home loaded steel (to US recipes) in the 12 bores without hesitation, as it undoubtedly works and my fowling guns are proved for it....but would not use any hard non-tox in any of my English guns. But in truth I miss the 2 1/2 ozs of size 1 lead in front of Bluedot in the eight for foreshore geese ...............it was uncomplicated, cheap to load.......and over the years really did the biz for me!! P1

ITM in the Eight, Hevi-shot in the Twelve!

Ginger, With reference to the last paragraph in your latest posting (No 310) please see posting No 228!

Democracy means members holding their elected council representatives to account, how can the membership hold their individual elected BASC council representatives to account when they do not accept individual responsibility and hide behind a "joint responsibility" cop out? It appears individual BASC council members can vote and make decisions on any issues affecting their members without proper consultation............but not be individually accountable for the way they vote or the decisions they make..............that is not my idea of democracy!

I still suspect if we dig deeper we will find the bird charities and/or protectionists driving this!........NE are just a convenient patsy! I really don't understand why BASC's support this? I further don't understand why in the face of significant opposition from their own membership...... they don't withdraw their support?

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