panoma1

If you like loading paper shells FC have a word with Graham 'Roughshooter' Regards, P1

Yep I knew the late Albert the late Sidney and his son Robin who was apprenticed in the firm, Matthew I assume is Robins son? 40+ years ago I used to call in their workshop in Westley Richards Factory in Grange Road, Bournbrook, then when they moved I used to pop in to their premises in Alvechurch for a chat and to ogle at their guns!,.........nice people!........ the business is still there..............but I haven't been in for donkeys years!

Yep, I inspected a pair of Webley 700 bearing, believe it or not! the Holland and Holland name on them 20+ years ago in a Birmingham Gunmakers shop.

Further to my last post the maker of most of the Churchill XXV boxlocks was the firm of A.A. Brown and Sons of Birmingham, they are still in business...and make superb guns....their supreme deluxe SLE is a work of art, equal or better than the very best London guns.

This whole topic is a mishmash of deliberate trade misinformation and misdescription....a very high percentage of British guns and parts were (and probably still are) made by out-workers and contractors (most of whom were also gunmakers in their own right) in the trade.......including the top London names.....and yes I heard sometime in the distant past that Churchill boxlock guns were not actually made by Churchill.....I think they were made in Brum but forget who it was claimed actually made them?

Because these bored out ten bores are very tight in the bore @ about .813 (even tighter at the chokes!!).......nominal 8 bore is .835.......some plastic wads can be .846 (they are made for industrial use) so there is a very real chance of bulging the barrels!

Stay away from plastic wads!

Independent assessment/report from a reputable gunsmith seems the only way to forward now?

The issue is further complicated by the fact that there seems to be two types of hevi-shot........the original irregularly shaped stuff is very hard and should, you are advised, be treated as steel.........the later, round shot (with a flat ring around the circumference) is sintered and can be used according to BASC...........through any choke constriction!? er on the safe side! follow the instructions on the box!

Nice one FC!

Yep, Staffs and West Mids also accept notification via email.

Bobshooting, I'm have no doubt you are a nice bloke, so I believe am I, so are a lot of the contributors to this debate!,,, but whilst we are as you say all wildfowlers we are not all the same! what seems to have polarised this debate is (for lack of a better description!) the hav's and have-nots, the majority of wildfowlers (who do not live close to the coast) shoot with wildfowling clubs who allow outsiders (some, controlled!) access to the marshes they control, they realise that not everyone can live by the coast, these are the inclusive clubs that are in my view acting in the best interests of all wildfowlers and contributing to the future wildfowling! and if the need arises they will have my absolute support, on the other hand you have the closed clubs that have since the inception of the club system which replaced free for everyone wildfowling, to this day steadfastly refuse to allow anyone except a small number of Local members to shoot the marshes they control. I resent these so called clubs because they do nothing for the future of wildfowling or the wildfowling community as a whole! to the contrary they damage wildfowling because they exclude true wildfowlers solely so they can keep the shooting for themselves, consequently they actually contribute nothing to the sport of wildfowling and remain outwith the mainstream wildfowling community, their choice! but when a big conservation organisation (or anyone else) casts its eyes on their bit of exclusive marsh they have neither the finances nor the friends in wildfowling to compete for the land, instead of wringing their hands at the loss of their exclusive shooting they should perhaps think of joining the fight for the future of mainstream wildfowling at the moment it seems they are so "dog in the manger" that rather than let any outsider in they would sooner see the land fall under the control of an anti-shooting conservation organisation and be lost forever to wildfowling, than let another pro wildfowling body get it! That is why though we are all wildfowlers but we are certainly not all the same! P1

Do you need a steelproof barrel? you can legally use lead inland in Scotland! surely you will only need to use steel if shooting over wetlands or on the coast.

Many moons ago my first 8 bore was a single Tolley, and was about 10 1/2/11lbs in weight, 3 1/4 homeloaded cartridges loaded with bluedot and 2 1/2ozs of size 1 lead took care of plenty of Geese with no excessive recoil that I can remember?? but in the heat of a flight........ you don't notice that anyway!.................................unless of course you shoot a bored out spanish 10 bore that is!!! no insult intended to owners of spanish 10 bores bored out to 8 of course!!! P1

I don't think you can legally shoot ducks and geese with a FAC rated shotgun? daystate 177 An 8 bore such as the one Strangford wildfowlers grandads mate was using will not 'kick' badly as the weight (usually around 12 to 15lbs in a double) soaks up much of the recoil! P1

Many years ago I was rough shooting locally mainly for rabbits and the odd pigeon, on this particular piece of land was a small pond which was invariably unproductive but on this occasion I decided to detour from my usual route to take in the pond...I was then coincidentally also using a Browning A5, an 'Acier Special' which in those days was a five shot!.....well as I approached about 8/9 mallard broke.....up went the gun 4 birds dead in the air unfortunately when I pulled the trigger for the fifth time nowt happened! the fourth cartridge case had not ejected properly and was half in and half out of the loading port trapped by the sliding breech!......magazine restriction laws on Auto's and pumps in the UK now make it unlikely anyone will do this legally ever again! Your Grandad obviously went one better eh?!! P1

Sorry I didn't know I was talking to Anser2 the self appointed font of all knowledge on Wildfowling! My opinion is as least as valid as yours so have the good grace to stick to facts rather than hurling personal insults and questioning my knowledge when you have a different view to mine! To the Mod (shaun4860) who wrote about removing this thread *please note* I have tried to remain factual in expressing opinion and have not deliberately posted any personal insults!

Fair 'nuf

Please see my response to Anser2's posting in red! Apologies I did say I was out of this debate but as Anser2's comments were not only inaccurate heresay but directed at me personally I have exercised a right of reply!

Its My pleasure Bob I would rather compliment a person than insult them unfairly and unnecessarily! how about you? The best form of defence is attack eh Anser2, regrettably and as much as we wish it wasn't so, money talks........ to deny this is burying your head in the sand! deliberate misrepresentation of what is posted and thinly disguised insults, half truths and waffle hardly contribute to grown up debate do they? try to distort the facts as much as you wish.....only time will tell who is right! I can sit and wait...............I doubt you or your Club can! I have had my say now......... so do your worst regarding more personal insults....I'm out of this particular errrr debate

Well that tirade was unnecessary! I was not calling you a bore Bob just drawing your attention (tit for tat!) to the fact that you are consistently (deliberately?) miss-spelling my 'forum handle' (if that's the right terminology?) in your response to my postings....... you should perhaps try to be a little less precious and sensitive............bearing in mind the inaccurate sarcastic personal criticism you often dish out over the net!

As you well know Double Bore I have never criticized Brancaster, probably because I do not know enough about the arrangements there! was it a club or a syndicate? or something in between! I have just come back from a Grouse day (wet!) on the 'glorious twelfth' over pointers, the moor is privately owned land, so I have no problem with ownership or privilege ! because I can pay and get access!!! But what sticks in my craw is the selfish individuals which have for years masqueraded as just an ordinary Wildfowling club, but have in reality hidden behind the pretence of being a club but are really a private parochial syndicate that excludes everyone unconnected outwith the immediate area from shooting what were and should still be, public access marshes! they are the real enemy of true Wildfowling! Putting the record straight.....Rome has never burned for me Double Bore, because I have only ever patronised open and inclusive Wildfowling clubs and free marshes, not exclusive private Wildfowling syndicates so I personally have never really lost anything!.........I acknowledge the benefits of a club to control their local marshes, but this should not be to the exclusion of all other genuine Wildfowlers!........when more open access could be achieved by a controlled permit scheme....... but no! even you Double Bore could not buy the right to shoot these places!!.... And no! I am not particularly referring to your club Anser2 but if the cap fits?....It will be interesting to see which way your landlord falls when he is faced with a suitcase full of cash from a predatory competitor for the shooting rights! compared to the chicken feed your "club " probably currently pays? I predict that if your "club" (and others) try to hang on to exclusivity they are the ones who are in my opinion "Fiddling whilst Rome burns" Only time will tell eh?!

Double Four, Anser2, Jono 4, et- al, as you all know I have been warning of this possibility for years and have been accused of my opinion being driven by jealousy! perhaps now these closed clubs will get off their complacent, fat, selfish ****s, get their heads out of the sand and try to do something inclusive in order to make friends and protect their shooting? It may be too late already? Fiddling whilst Rome burns, it appears may no longer be the answer!

Shouldn't that be Rob?!

Meindl spray conditioner and proofer.