grrclark

It is reductionism in the extreme.

Which is entirely reasonable, although it is extremely unlikely to happen if you got a particularly militant customer with a genuine exemption who insisted on not wearing a mask they could attempt to sue you for discrimination. Which is absurd, but a reality. Whether it would ever stand up in court is a different issue. I expect that someone with such respiratory limitations wouldn't want to visit a wood working shop, even with good extraction for dust.

It is very much that. Drakeford is going to legislate to limit Christmas Day mixing to 2 households only in Wales. More bad legislation just for the sake of having it. I think a big part of the problem is that the message has been so inconsistent and varied and full of so many contradictions that people no longer listen, or they are genuinely confused. As a result the government, devolved or UK, think the answer is to up the ante and make it law. The consequence of that is that we will criminalise many good people for no benefit or betterment and all because of rank rotten leadership.

They can't so therefor don't I guess. It is just another example of bad law. Wholly meretricious and unable to be effectively policed so as a consequence is ultimately self defeating. We sadly seem to have an ever increasing desire to implement more of the same sort of stupidity.

Bill Gates, CCP and "do your own research" seems to be the go to answer. The history of McD's fries is really interesting. They are McDonald's halo product and were/are absolutely fundamental to the success of that brand.

The bit in bold needs to be substantiated. Is this your claim or or is it one of these same 'scientists' that said asymptomatic people with a confirmed case of the virus cannot spread it because they don't cough or sneeze? Susan Michie is an academic who is a member of the Communist Party of Britain, so what? She is not an elected representative, she sits as part of an advisory panel among with around 20 others and members of that panel regularly change. Pfizer are a publicly listed business with global revenues of somewhere around $8bn-$9bn and an EBITDA of c.$4bn, I would say they have exceptionally deep pockets to fund their own vaccine research. Imperial College have c.£1bn of revenues that comes from a multitude of channels, around a third is from tuition fees and education contracts, around a third is research grant funding from multiple sources and the balance split between numerous other channels.

There was a campaign for people to wear a lanyard with daisies on, I think, to show an exemption but of course anybody could wear one. Ultimately you have to rely on shopkeepers, etc to police and that is the bit that is unsustainable whatever mechanism may be used to demonstrate exemption. If you're a shop worker on pretty much a minimum wage would you go out your way to police something not of your making with all the grief that brings?

I expect that similar to having to have a chainsaw certification and wear PPE to use a saw during work, there is no equivalent requirement for non work use. So as wearing a mask is a mandatory requirement of employment as a surgeon they couldn't opt out. In your industry you may have to disclose if you had any negative financial history, but in other industries if asked that same question you could take action. Horses for courses

Oh come on, you can do better than that. Just answer me the questions on why did you reference the Gates foundation and what positions of power do the CCP hold in the UK democracy?

Some scientists disagree that someone who is asymptomatic, but confirmed via a test as having the virus cannot shed it because they don’t cough? So the whole premise of your post here is to parrot information, possibly disinformation, that has been posted elsewhere, but with no agenda? Where are the CCP, i’m assuming Chinese Communist Party, in a position of power in the UK democracy? What vested financial interest does SAGE or it’s respective members have and why is that relevant to the Gates foundation? Why reference the Gates foundation at all? Having done all your own research why do you think that the major global economies are doing massive harm to people’s economic livelihoods under the cover of covid?

I understood what you meant and i've not seen any stat's to describe (non covid) deaths avoided due to covid restrictions, although there will certainly be some. I suppose part of the problem is there is likely no specific repeatability to some of the causes of death that being either confined to quarters or improved hygiene have mitigated against. It's like the campaign to not have closed looped cords on window blinds due to someone falling and being strangled by the cord. How may deaths were prevented, maybe none, maybe hundreds, we will never know until we measure non looped corded blinds non deaths. You would need to have some sort of repeatable statistical certainly in attributable cause of death to then attribute non deaths and you could only do that over an extended period of time. To give some certainty in this answer, I can confirm for certain that I have not died of food poisoning this year, but i cannot say if that is due to not going to dodgy eateries or not washing my hands as I have not died of food poisoning in any previous years for either of those reasons either, but it could also be for either, both or none of those reasons.

Very good in quoting someone else's thoughts, how about some of your own. What critical inspection of Paul Craig Robert's interpretation have you done? If you wish to talk of cognitive dissonance then why not start with the multiple cognitive biases that you are demonstrating: Selective perception - you are choosing information that you perceive to support your hypothesis, i.e. Trump could not lose so therefor there must be fraud and you select the things you perceive to validate that or selective in the things that you choose to dismiss that may challenge your hypothesis. Continued Influence Effect - by constantly exposing yourself to the same information sources that promote that same narrative that there was fraud that re-enforces your perception there was. Cheerleader effect - your belief system is enhanced through exposure to influential sources that you hold in high esteem who are actively promoting your hypothesis. Reactive Devaluation - As you cannot believe that Trump could lose the reaction is to devalue any information that supports that narrative, i.e. it must be fraud. Or despite 57 court actions with no success that is because they are out to protect the 'establishment' rather than the truth. Conjunction Fallacy - This is where you believe that multiple specific conditions, i.e. systemic fraud permeating every element of the electoral process in the US, is more likely and more credible than the single general condition that more people want Biden as President. I could list a bucket load more if you like. All of us exhibit cognitive bias all the time, however critical thinking allows us to move beyond our conditioned biases and try to evaluate things in the round. To address your point, yes there is an element of partiality across all media outlets. My reasoning as I have explained multiple times on this thread and the other similar one is really very simple, there has been multiple opportunity for those advancing the theory of a fraudulent election to present credible, objective evidence in front of the courts and the various law enforcement agencies in the US. None of the evidence presented has stood up to scrutiny such that every court case advanced on the basis of fraud has been dismissed, the lawyers when in court didn't actually claim fraud, and all of the respective agencies involved have said they have been unable to identify any credible evidence of fraud, of sufficient scale, to influence the outcome of the election. This is dialectical thinking. So on nothing other than the balance of probability i favour the outcome of a single credible condition, more people wanted Biden to win and subsequently he did.

Indeed, asymptomatic only means that they do not display symptoms of the disease, not that they cannot shed the virus to others. Coughing & sneezing has a greater physical dispersal of airborne particulates, but even a standard exhale of breath will still contain moisture droplets that contain the virus.

An interesting article. Humblepie, you didn't answer the question that you posed at the end of your post. If it is a great ruse and we are being fed a lot of cobblers, then why is that? Why would numerous sources on the internet, as you advise us to search for outside of the main stream media, have all the answers yet those same answers are denied to the policy makers of the most powerful and influential nations on earth? Why would we absolutely trash our economies on the basis of bogus information? You didn't answer other than saying SAGE, communists and Bill Gates. So answer your own question, why are SAGE so willingly misleading everyone and why is the government destroying the economic livelihood of so many?

Well said. For far too many they have framed the argument as saving lives versus someone wanting to have a pint or a meal out, but that is far too simplistic and naïve. Government action in denying the livelihood of millions is doing massive damage to lives all across this country and the fact that is so readily dismissed by so many is insulting, ignorant and offensive in the extreme.

A deal would have to be ratified, a no deal was the default position so needs no further approval. Kinda ironic for the parties that scream a no deal would be the worst possible outcome, then go on to say they would refuse to approve a deal 🤔

I expect their wages are covered in the c.£300bn budget deficit to date (directly attributable to covid) I daresay they’re good value for it to wave those signs though!

On a bit of a self righteous campaign Vince? What about the lives of those working in these sectors that have been irrevocably damaged. Mortgage payments unable to be made, lifetimes worth of effort and commitment thrown asunder through absolutely no fault of their own. So many life’s dreams and aspirations snuffed out by knee jerk and inconsistent government reactions. Millions of people will be left behind as a consequence. Shame those who are comfortable in their retirement, who had their chance to build a nest egg without the government turning off the taps can play what they think is the morally superior card boasting how they stayed at home to save us all. You really have no clue beyond the boundaries of your own self interest and you demonstrate that time and again.

I rather suspect he is a little insane. I don’t for one second imagine this will change his rhetoric, in fact I think he’ll ramp it up. The perpetually gullible, hard of thinking and wilfully ignorant Trump acolytes will continue to believe him too.

57 court cases lost and not a single bit of credible evidence put in front of the court, yet this nonsense persists. What is it that makes people continue to believe utter nonsense in spite of the obvious truth? State, federal and the supreme federal courts all said the same thing, as did numerous federal agencies, but of course some partisan online media outlet has it right.

Why would someone argue with that statement? Because it is racism dressed up in argument of sophistry, it is an argument that is a fallacy of equivocation. Standard PW fare really.

Well put.

Chris, i see some comments from very senior Texas GOP party executives that are all but calling for secession from the Union. Trump’s most vocal pet media poodles are actually calling for military intervention. I do fear that this could turn very ugly. Agreed. The irony of the man who describes himself as the ultimate patriot who is doing so much damage to his own, the GOP’s and America’s reputation as well as creating a huge fracture across American society. It’s sad.

Indeed. Sadly there will be an inevitable outrage (justifiable outrage for the crime committed) of how brown skinned, non British men did this and should be sent back from whence they came, but that completely misses the point that there is an evil toxicity of morals and values that appears to be culturally ingrained in a section of our populace and that is what needs to be tackled. As you say there are many other poisonous elements of society that also appear to be culturally ingrained, such as human trafficking and forced prostitution, in a different cross section /profile of the populace, that we also look past.

So as expected the SCOTUS have denied the Texas AGs attempt to overturn the election result. Hundreds of GOP House members, 20 Republican states that filed to intervene in support, even some states that don't exist (New California and New Nevada) filed in support and still the complaint was dismissed as having no standing. Doesn't say much for those GOP elected representatives who signed in support. So keenly and openly trying to subvert the free democratic choice of the American electorate they are duty bound to serve, shame on them. Trump's "Big One" shot down by the overwhelmingly Republican weighted judiciary. Despite all the Trump furore about fraud not a single instance has been advanced and found to be substantive in court, not a single thing. It doesn't matter what his pet press say, what the YouTube,Facebook, Reddit, Blogspace, Twitter conspiracists so confidently proclaim, when it comes down to being objectively challenged in a court of law not a single complaint or claim of fraud held up to scrutiny. The "overwhelming evidence" was smoke and mirrors, his fans who contributed $200million dollars in support of this fight to "stop the steal" were absolutely stitched up like kippers. That is the biggest fraud or hoax of all. So Walker570, you reckon that fat lady is singing yet? Or is there a last desperate throw of the dice by Trump and his sycophantic followers? I've seen very many now claiming that martial law will be declared, that there will be a trial for treason in the military court for those that orchestrated the fraud.