Fellside

You raise a valid point Johnny - I think most of us pattern geeks are on board with this. The OP was however trying to measure his choke tubes relative to bore. To be honest, for most popular mass produced O&Us the info is available on the net anyway. I still think the best use for a brass choke gauge has been developed by wymberley above. Have a look.

The old mobilchoke are close to the presumed nominal per choke gauge. To be honest there are so many different bore measurements and choke variations - the choke gauges are often more trouble than they’re worth. Only a micrometer is of any real worth if curiosity gets the better. There’s nothing quite so effective however as putting the pattern in the right place. Ha ha ha…..excellent..🤣

Hi Winyard, This is a common cock up. As mentioned above Invector Plus barrels are ‘backbored’ i.e larger diameter than usual. Your choke gauge measures relative to a nominal (approx’ 729 thou) 12 bore. However with your ‘Invector Plus’ barrels being about 738 thou - you are whole choke nomination out. I would forget the choke gauge. It won’t take long to find the Invector Plus choke measurements on line. The 1/4 is 8 thou. Can’t remember the 1/2. If you’re getting decent scores though, you may have found your favourite combo anyway……?! Nice gun BTW.

I strongly agree with your last point. BASC seem to be a little like the UN peacekeepers. All observation and reporting - no fight. Where’s their fight gone??

Yep - if it’s not consistent and trustworthy…..?! I moved on to Eley Superbs when they started messing about with Supercomps. Still like the Superbs a lot, but I’m finding that the Fiocchi FBlues are very similar and less money.

I understand the pragmatism behind your point. However think on this: 60% of small woods in farmland Britain are used for pheasant shooting. How vulnerable would they be if they didn’t ‘earn their keep’ for shooting? Anyway, as well wildlife/habitat benefits, personally I’d rather kill pheasants when their going like rockets at a good height. If chickens flew like that, we’d be releasing those too……🙂

Yes agreed. When I shot Express years ago, the Supercomp was a brilliant and popular shell. I used many thousands. They did it in a number 6 shot for a while, with high antimony pellets, for the Japanese market I believe. They were great for pigeons and crows. I paid £122 / 1000 for them…..!! By eck thems where the days lad….. etc. etc. I think part of their decline generally, was due to them messing around with the clay cart’s too much. I also understand that the Vectan propellants they relied upon were somewhat tricky re quality control.

Strange - never came across any problems. Bad batch…?

Buy a heap of them while you still can.

No tin hat necessary LB - you have your pet products just like the rest of us. I think what did it for Express years ago - was a major product failure which they didn’t support very well. I personally had used their cart’s for about 5 years prior to this. I think a lot of the RFDs and end users consequently shopped elsewhere. I’m using those Fiocchi FBlue clay bangers at the mo’ - a very high end cart’ at the price of a cheapie. I have to say I’m impressed.…..even though they’re made by Johnny foreigner……😀

Express has been a dying brand for years - despite having its diehard followers. Loosing so much market share it was ripe for takeover. I do hope that Fiocchi can use the Express base as a manufacturing platform to strengthen their position in the UK. They make great cartridges and if (IF?) they can keep their prices competitive, they should shake things up. Good move! As an afterthought, I wonder if they have secured an MOD contract. They are an important ‘defence’ supplier. I suppose we’ll never get to know the ins and outs of that one…..?!

That last pie must have just been too much for the seat 😄

I’ve never known anyone on a farm, doing a few clays now and then, receive a noise abatement order from their local authority. This seems to be a relationship management scenario (re neighbours) more than anything else.

If you want to tie things up in a formal let agreement - it will cost a fortune via agents and law firms. If possible strike up an informal agreement whereby the old fashioned ‘folding stuff’ changes pockets once or twice a year. There isn’t any tax liability on you and if game habitat is degraded you can walk away.

Agree. Or in my case pay someone who’s much better than I am with that sander……🙂

I think Gunman’s post is spot on - reflects my findings also.

Speaking as someone who needs a lot of drop on my stock (being taller than Mr average), I have been through this scenario a few times. I have learned that stockers don’t like bending - i.e persuading the stock downwards - by more than 4 or 5 mm. I have spoken to some of the best and they are cautious about the wood departing from the top strap and leaving a gap. They tend to prefer a combination of removing wood and bending if there is a lot of extra drop needed. These days I will only entertain buying a gun if it isn’t far off my required measurements. Also by the way, if a lot of bend is applied this can alter the gun’s pitch. You then end up with a different problem. I would say visit a really good stocker and take their advice.

Great post - well done grandad. I pick my sons up from school everyday, as said above, if there was just the slightest ‘anti’ comment from school I would be in there having a meeting. Having said that, it’s not likely as they attend a market town school with a lot of farming and country people around. Your grandson won’t forget those crows, very special.

Food for thought (no pun intended): much has been made of the National Game Dealers Association refusing to take lead shot game this year. However……..only 18 out of the UK’s 90 plus game dealers are members of the association.

Thanks rbrowning2. Just had a good rummage on the website - some interesting stuff.

I used the 40 - 50 yard pheasant determinant as this is a general ‘litmus test’ for the commonest form of game shooting. It is likely to be more difficult to achieve effective patterns using large steel pellets, through a small bore, on birds much smaller than your enormous geese - which I have also shot for decades, admittedly with a 12 bore. I applaud your achievements if you are killing geese cleanly at 30 yards or so with steel and a 410 (genuinely). However, I don’t think lead being banned from 410 usage will do us any favours within game shooting. I understand that some people have found steel workable on decoyed pigeons - and I take some encouragement from this. Really though…… given a choice, we would be better off with the freedom to choose lead shot for our 410s when appropriate. I would therefore hope if lead is outlawed, there is a sensible exemption for that delightful little wand - the 410. Happy hunting!

You’ll generally find that people don’t like antisocial outbursts, it was very handbaggy, and alluding to this doesn’t make me the lout. Look forward to seeing your 40 (better 50) yard 410 steel patterns.

No need to start swinging your handbag. I don’t think smudger687 was setting out to ‘knock others’. He makes a valid point actually - re decent driven birds which I’m sure he was referring to. This is the mainstay of the average shooting season for most guns after all - but I appreciate there are exceptions. A 24 gram load of steel 3s out of a 20 bore (with about 100 pellets) is virtually useless in pattern terms for rangey pheasants. The patterns are about the same as a 410 using a 2” 9 gram lead number 6. You might be able to down geese with about 5 times the body size using a handful of 3s, close enough to hear their wing noise, or flighting ducks which aren’t usually sky scrapers, but try a 50 yard hen pheasant using a 410 with about eighty odd pellets…….?! No thanks. It wouldn’t be ethical. I think there is a strong and valid case for allowing the continued use of lead through the 410 and 28 when or if legislation calls the shots. How about suggesting to the average game shot: that they should give up their 30 gram lead 12 bore cart’ for a replacement 9 gram one. See how you get on…..🙂 This would roughly equate to the 410 / steel 3s for pattern density.

Wylye, I can’t answer specifics about the woodwork being interchangeable. As Scully says the Browning woodwork should swap over. However, they are subject to some hand finishing. I have used these guns a lot and they occasionally show too much individuality for woodwork to be swapped about (if your unlucky). Give it a go, it could randomly work, but gently does it - they’re not robot made Berettas. That’s all I can offer. I’m only a user of these guns - but hopefully a gun smith might be along soon to help you.

If you mean the gun fitting dimensions….? In theory yes: 36mm to 56mm nose to heel and 14 3/4 inches for length of pull. However there have been a few different variations (525 particularly) which have varied from their catalogue measurements. Of course any second hand offerings could have been altered to fit a previous owner.