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I have about 90 28 bore cartridges. 25g No.6 shot Sold my silver pigeon 28 a while back and just having a tidy up. Dry stored but don’t have boxes, no corrosion on heads and all in good order. £15 for the lot, pick-up around Shrewsbury, Shropshire.

Bought a slab of Hull Comp X 12g cartridges 28 gr 7.5 fibre . Sadly they will not cycle my semi auto ! so i have only used 3 of them 247 left Will swap for any 12g fibre wad carts or £50 collected from near Lenham . Mike

Hi Everyone, This is my new video which has just gone live. Please share it around and it would be great for some feedback.

Hypothesis The Fiocchi ‘Pigeon 32’ cartridges that I have been using appear to cause excessive wounding. Earlier investigatory testing on the pattern plate (at various ranges with various chokes) showed these cartridges behaved erratically; the pellets tended to stick together with a lot less pellets than expected hitting the target. Better shooting performance could be achieved by trying two readily available brands and undertaking pattern testing in the method described by John Harradine for the BASC, June 2013. To provide some context, here are some example results from earlier testing using a factory extended 1/2 choke (20 thou) at 40 yards: Fiocchi Pigeon 32g – 98 Eley Pigeon HV 32g - 168 Gamebore Clear Pigeon 32g - 171 Desired average – 140 Note: Based on this earlier testing, I invested in a 3/8 choke (15 thou). Method Shoot the pattern plate then draw a 30 inch circle over the centre of the pattern. The goal is to achieve the minimum average pellet count in a 30 inch circle, at the desired range, with at least 10 pattern tests per cartridge. For more detail on the method see: https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/340965-basc-pattern-test-we-need/ (I can’t find a copy of the original document) My specification is: Range = 40 yards Minimum average pellet count in 30 inch circle = 140 (for pigeon) Do no exceed 140 by too much as shooting is expected to be at 25 to 40 yards and the pigeon must be edible. In addition to the method described in the link, I have created two extra sets of data in an attempt to provide indicative results on how erratic a given cartridge can be. This is because its difficult if not impossible to consistently judge the evenness of a pattern with the human eye, but it is possible to collect data on the perceived errors in a pattern. Multiple Hits (MH) – This is the number of times pellets appear to have hit the same place at the same time; 2 hits in the same place gives a hole that looks like a figure of eight. Number of Pellets Together (NPT) – the total number of pellets that appear to have hit the same place at the same time; the sum of the pellets counted in multiple hits. For example: A pair of pellets hitting one place and a pair hitting another would be MH=2 NPT=4. Note: I have no way of knowing if 2 pellets did hit the target at the same time. Its possible one pellet was at the front of the shot cloud and one at the back. I do think its more likely that the pellets become stuck together in the barrel. Multiple Hits can be identified by multiple uniform curves around a hole in the target, this can be can be as high as 5. Its possibly why sometimes your quarry appears to have been ‘hit hard’ - it got it by 5 pellets in almost the exactly same place at the same time. Apparatus Gun: Browing Maxus, 26 inch barrel, Briley Helix Hunter ‘Mid-Range’ Choke (15 Thou) Medium: Lining paper from B&M Bargains Target: Mk2 Portable Pattern Plate (patent pending) Specifications of Cartridges under test Fiocchi: ‘Pigeon 32’ - 32 gram - No. 6 - Fibre Wad Eley: ‘Pigeon HV’ - 32 gram - No. 6 - Fibre Wad Gamebore: ‘Clear Pigeon’ - 32 gram - No. 6 - Fibre Wad Results Testing of the Fiocchi cartridges was not continued due to obvious poor performance; its not worth the time or effort. Conclusion The Fiocchi cartridges under test were of exceptionally poor quality. The pellet count and spread of the pattern was poor. This accounts for the excessive wounding. I have cut open some cartridges and found all the pellets are all separated so large amounts of pellets must stick together in the barrel. Perhaps the lead is too soft and/or the diameter of the wad does not provide sufficient obturation. Both the Eley and Gamebore cartridges gave much better results than the Fiocchi. With a 15 thou choke, the Eley cartridges achieved the desired average pellet count without exceeding it too much. With a 15 thou choke, the Gamebore cartridges did not achieve the desired average pellet count; 17% less pellets in a 30 inch circle when compared with the Eley. The standard deviation for pellet count was significantly lower for the Eley cartridges; 14.43 compared with 18.21 for Gamebore. Therefore the Eley cartridges are more consistent when compared to the Gamebore cartridges. The Gamebore cartridges had on average 27% more Multiple Hits and a 37.55% higher Number of Pellets Together. This is more evidence of inconsistency from the Gamebore cartridges when compared to the Eley cartridges. The Gamebore cartridges would benefit from a 20 thou choke to increase the average pellet count, although it is highly unlikely that this would improve consistency. Just because the Gamebore cartridge is marketed well with a nicely printed box and celebrity endorsement… it doesn't mean its any better than the competition. Notes on the Efficacy of the Method I’m satisfied that 10 tests per cartridge gave meaningful average and standard deviation values for pellet count, MH and NPT. If I stopped at 5 tests per cartridge, the results for average pellet count would have still been accurate enough to reach a worthwhile conclusion, although the Standard Deviation for pellet count would have been a lot less accurate. Scores for the first 5 tests only would have been as follows: In future, I am unsure as to weather I would spend the time & effort on 10+ tests for each cartridge if there is an obvious trend emerging after 5 tests. FAQ Q: Why did you bother with all this!? A: I was interested in the real world effects of different chokes & cartridge combinations and whether or not these match up to the gut feelings & rules of thumb people like to iterate. Q: What have you learnt so far? A: So far I've found that even if you stick to the same loads at a similar price, the choice of cartridge is very important, more important than choice of choke. I’ve never heard anyone say that before. I thinks its generally assumed that ‘similar’ cartridges behave in a similar way, but they certainly don’t. Q: Would you do it again? A: Yes, I plan to do this two more times; once for game and once for clays. Q: Why did you choose a Briley Helix Hunter ‘Mid-Range’ Choke? A: Its a 3/8 choke (15 thou) which was my best guess to achieve the desired average pellet count, based on earlier testing. Its advertised as being optimum for 25 to 40 yards using lead shot. Its aftermarket & extended which should give more consistent results with a wide variety of loads when compared to factory Invector chokes (based on information from American writers such as Randy Wakeman). Most importantly, I think it looks good on the end of a semi-auto. Q: Any tips for conducting pattern tests? A: It’s actually difficult to hit a stationary target at 40 yards in a consistent manor with a shotgun. I think this is because you are not moving you body, your muscles are not offering much resistance to recoil forces that are far higher than most rifles. This can lead to excessive barrel flip and throw the centre of the pattern so far off that the result is unusable. I used a semi-auto, I imagine this effect can be far worse with a double barrel. To achieve a consistent result, I mark my point of aim 2 thirds from the top to the target rather than half way down. I’ve found its best to mount the gun slightly over the top of the target, pulling tightly into the shoulder with both hands, slowly lower the gun on to the point of aim while breathing out, stop when out of breath & at the point of aim then finally pull the trigger. Do not hold on the point of aim as there is a tendency to drift side to side. My Portable Pattern Plate is 40 x 40 inches, I recommend 50 x 50 inches to alleviate this problem.

Bulk buying cartridges Evening all, i have been in touch with Just Cartridges and am considering doing a bulk buy of cartridges to the Scottish Highlands. Would anyone be interested in buying larger quantities of cartridges and sharing the shipping. This would be on a not for profit basis. * you can mix sizes, manufacturers, bores and wad types - as long as each is ordered by the slab of 250. 10,000 minimum order before it becomes economical.

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can help me. We found this in East Sussex, covered in dirt & rust. After a good soak we managed to scrape enough of it off to read the writing. It says ELEY-KYNCH 28 ICI 28. I'm intrigued to see how old this cartridge is, it appears someone has drilled holes into it at some point. I'd be grateful if anybody knows anything about this.

Hi everyone, Just curious to find out what PW members reckon the best weight of .243 bullet for roe is? I'm still relatively inexperienced in deer matters and when I started out, a friend who is a professional stalker recommended always using 100 grain bullets. There's no doubt that Federal Premium 100 grains do the job, but I'm finding that they make a hell of a mess on the way out of the animal. I shot a doe on Friday and her whole right lung was more or less hanging out of the exit wound. I lost a lot of that side of the carcass as a result, which I didn't feel too good about. I realise everyone will have their own opinions and to a large degree the choice is down to personal experience and preference. I'm just curious to see what the range of preferences is. Thanks to all, WG88

Best fibre wad cartridge for clays? Best (plastic or fibre) for game? Thanks in advance. SE

100 Caladonian 26.5 gram 5 shot - £15 100 Saga 28 gram 6 shot £15 25 Alphamax Bismuth 32 gram 5 shot plastic wad £20 25 Impact Tungsten Matrix 30 gram 6 shot £25 50 Eley Grand Prix 26.5 gram 5 shot (old school late 60's plastic waterproof case) £10 Also got about 100 various mixed 16 bore cartridges for sale including some oddball shotsizes, grand prix/alphamax in BB, AAA etc, ideal for the 16 bore enthusiast £15 Cosidering the ridiculous prices of 16's, a bargain I am sure you will agree particularly the bismuth/tungsten that retail at bundles these days! Collect only from Colchester

400 Express high Velocity 12G cartridges for sale LST288 28gram, size 8 shot Plastic wad 1400 Fps I no longer shoot clays and need fibre wads now so this lot need to go! £70 the lot including a 3/4 box free! Collection from Rayleigh, Essex or may be able to drop off if local.

Hi all, Up for sale is an Elderkin and son cartridge bag (the same Bill Elderkin that writes the gun reviews in shooting gazette) It is made from top quality leather and canvas and is oxblood in colour. Has a wide canvas shoulder strap for comfort Holds 75-100 cartridges Hinged lid so it will stay open whilst in use if you want it to Quality brass fittings Lovley item, only used about 5 times £17 posted

Wildfowling is something I have as good as no experience with and I was wondering if someone could help me chose the best type of NT Cart. I quite like my gun, and it wasn't cheap so for that reason I would quite like to avoid the use of Steel shot primarily to reduce the damage to the barrel as much as possible. Additionally, cost is a major factor I know steel are often the cheapest but what would be the best cartridge and most cost effective for duck primarily. I was thinking 30g or 32g 5s. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks T-Bolt94