243 vs 25/06

[Yorkshire Pudding]

After a long time of chewing over a firearms ticket i have finally decided to apply for one .

 

Going to ask for 3 guns at first th first two rifles were easy to decided upon .

 

17hmr for the bunnys

223 for the foxes

 

Now the hard part , i have access to some stalking in england . I also wanted to treat myself to a couple of days in the highlands too . After reading about "the mafia's" exploits on hog , want to have a go at that too !

 

So .243 or 25/06 ?

 

I am leaning towards the 25/06 but would love the opinions of the more learned members on here .

 

all the best yis yp

[sako751sg]

Choice of heavier bullet weights for bigger deer species with the 25/06,but the .243 does the job fine.I use the .243 with 100 grain and have had no problems with the red,and use lighter bullets for roe.Everyone will have different ideas and experiences,so nothing is gospel.Know your limits and keep an open mind,buy a .243,haha.

[CharlieT]

Just a thought but if you went with a .243 then you would not need the .223 and using the one rifle all the time you would become much more proficient with it.

 

However, there is the flip side to the coin in that the more rifles you have the more fun. In which case perhaps go with 25.06 or how about a .308.

[Mungler]

I fell upon the .25-06 whilst looking for the "do all" calibre.

 

.223 not enough, .243 not enough and .308 too much (for my domestic / local deer).

 

Having actually had and shot .223, .243, .25-06 and .308 I would say .25-06 all day long and for everything you will ever consider shooting.

 

Whilst it is loud unmoderated I have found that with:

 

1. a muzzle break there is *no* barrel flip (see below)

2. with a moderator there is *no* barrel flip and no difference with any other moderated .243

 

Further, out of the rifles I have had Tikka, Howa, Blaser, Steyr etc. I have fallen in love with Sauer - smoother than a silk cod piece.

 

So, there you have it. But feel free to seek further advice and guidance from the forum - I am sure there will be someone who has never had either a .243 or a .25-06 along shortly to tell you the short comings of both

 

For a dog danglies muzzle break use this fella:

 

http://www.bgaltd.co.uk/30151.html

 

I got a type D/E in polished brass and it's flippin lovely (as well as flippin cheap).

[Browning]

Nice to see you back YP!

 

After having owned both calibers, I always opted for the .25-06 when stalking Fallow and Red. The heavier bullet choice

swayed me.

 

I have no doubts that the .243 will kill them cleanly, but the .25-06 was a real 'confidence giver' and never failed

to do the job, and does give you that little more margin for error.

[jammiedodger]

I used a 25-06 for 12 years, i sold it to a mate and have been trying to buy it back ever since. don`t get me wrong I use a .243 now but that because its the estate rifle and I didn`t get a choice in caliber. 243 will do everything you need but its more fun to do it with a .25

[Tayfix]

Good question YP,

I have not long passed My DSC1 and after going on that course and speaking with the guys there and loads of others its made me opt for a .243 which i am looking to buy now.

Reason for me was i have seen alot of different shooters from different walks of life and jobs some it is there living, Now the point im getting to is shot placement, If your a good shot a .243 will do the job well on the six speices of deer in the UK and not make a mess of the meat. I have seen guys shooting large caliber rifles and also my shooting buddy had the same experiance where these guys could not shoot for **** but they did hit things and not where they where aimming,But the impact of a larger caliber round hitting its objective can be over wellming and some times messy,Ok most of the time the end result is the same a dead animal but?

Now i am not saying a .243 is the best round far from it, What i am saying is good shot placement is every thing in what ever caliber you go for.

[flytie]

If you want a rifle for the "hogs" you will need something a little bigger than the 25-06 to get it past your FEO. Defra recommend .270 or larger and I have read that they are thinking of increasing the minimum to .308 firing a 160gn softpoint. You will probably have to book a day, or two (and have written proof), out on pigs to get them on your certificate.

 

If as has been suggested you were to buy a .243 (instead of the .223) you would have a brilliant foxing rifle that you could also re-zero for heavier rounds if you fancied a stalking expedition. Which would leave you a space on your ticket for a bigger rifle for pigs and larger deer if you fancied a change.

 

That said the 25-06 is a fantastic round.

 

Atb, ft

[Dunkield]

If you want a rifle for the "hogs" you will need something a little bigger than the 25-06 to get it past your FEO. Defra recommend .270 or larger and I have read that they are thinking of increasing the minimum to .308 firing a 160gn softpoint.

That would depend on where you go FT, where we go, and I am sure plenty of other places, you can use what you like, within reason of course.

The "270 or larger" get's banded around mainly by people who have never even done it, but we have seen them shot with anything from 25-06 to .375.

The fact of the matter is, IF they are hit right, and IF they are taken at sensible range, they will go down with those and anything else in between.

[CharlieT]

Stuart

 

What you say is true. However I know many forces implement the ".270" rule when applying for a condition for pigs.

 

I presume your force do not have such a policy and will grant a condition for pigs with lesser calibers. What is the minimum caliber they will condition as I know the ACPO and the DI both suggest .270.

[al4x]

are the conditions still in force if you use the gun abroad? I'd guess its irrelevant unless you want to shoot pigs at home

[Mungler]

are the conditions still in force if you use the gun abroad? I'd guess its irrelevant unless you want to shoot pigs at home

 

Exactly. Croatia isn't so fussy.

 

Also, I wouldn't know where to start re: shooting piggies in the UK

[CharlieT]

Ah.............my mistake, thought Stewart was talking of UK.

 

Sorry...........

[Dunkield]

As pointed out I was referring the Wild West, well East actually - and that isn't as wild as it was..

 

And for clarification, it wasn't a Mafia trip, we had space for one 'special' person so they offered up one of their members.

[flytie]

That would depend on where you go FT, where we go, and I am sure plenty of other places, you can use what you like, within reason of course.

The "270 or larger" get's banded around mainly by people who have never even done it, but we have seen them shot with anything from 25-06 to .375.

The fact of the matter is, IF they are hit right, and IF they are taken at sensible range, they will go down with those and anything else in between.

 

 

As pointed out I was referring the Wild West, well East actually - and that isn't as wild as it was..

 

And for clarification, it wasn't a Mafia trip, we had space for one 'special' person so they offered up one of their members.

Beggin' your pardon, I still think it's a big ask to get it on your ticket here. Yes they can be taken with a .243 and with a 6.5, I have seen it done down in the Forest. But if you talk to people who do it regularly, they are not calibre on many folks recommended list.

 

I have one friend who is in France at the moment with his o/u .375 H/H. He is not the only one in his party who has this calibre. Paul Roberts, who shoots a lot of pigs, published a list of suitable calibres, I will try and dig the article up.

 

I am sure a .22lr would do the job if you hit it in the right place. Personally it's not something I would want to do, I'd rather use something a tad bigger.

 

ft

[brno223]

Im a 243 owner and user and it is neither better or worse than any other calibre in the correct conditions but the one main drawback I find with many 243's, one of my own included is they can be fickle with 100gr bullets which are required for large deer in scotland. And Mine has a 9" twist, most are 10's. I have never had a 25-06 or shot one, im sure they are very good and will certainly do what you ask in terms of on paper ballistics. I'd rather have a 270, just because I have never had one and they have a legendary repuation across the world. I am not recoil sensetive though, some are afraid of it for this reason although i dont see why.

 

I've had 2 .243 rifles but never really got on with either of them - I just couldn't get them to group as I wanted. But .243 is a popular and successful round, and one of my friends in particular swears by it. Others have told me that they too have found it difficult to work up an accurate load with 100 grain bullets. One of them sold his and bought a lightweight Sako in .25-06 which he loves and uses with great success on red. I've used a .25-06 (not his) on a handful of occasions and it's a devastating round.

[Dunkield]

Beggin' your pardon, I still think it's a big ask to get it on your ticket here. Yes they can be taken with a .243 and with a 6.5, I have seen it done down in the Forest. But if you talk to people who do it regularly, they are not calibre on many folks recommended list.

 

I have one friend who is in France at the moment with his o/u .375 H/H. He is not the only one in his party who has this calibre. Paul Roberts, who shoots a lot of pigs, published a list of suitable calibres, I will try and dig the article up.

I was talking about abroad and that wasn't aimed at you chap.

 

Agreed a dedicated hog calibre would need to be something bigger, but I bumped into a bloke at work who shoots and asked how our trip went and gave it the "isn't 6.5 a bit small I thought you had to use .270 and above?" so I was probably reacting to having heard that just once too often this week...

 

I have mentioned it before so I won't go on about it many more times, but I saw a big hog shot too far back with a .375H&H and it didn't even slow down, it was dropped on the spot by the next gun with a well placed .308 shot (imagine the of that )

 

If I did it all the time I would get a 7-08, I don't, so I will use what I have, it seems to work just fine if I don't stretch it and place it properly.

[flytie]

I was talking about abroad and that wasn't aimed at you chap.

 

Agreed a dedicated hog calibre would need to be something bigger, but I bumped into a bloke at work who shoots and asked how our trip went and gave it the "isn't 6.5 a bit small I thought you had to use .270 and above?" so I was probably reacting to having heard that just once too often this week...

 

I have mentioned it before so I won't go on about it many more times, but I saw a big hog shot too far back with a .375H&H and it didn't even slow down, it was dropped on the spot by the next gun with a well placed .308 shot (imagine the of that )

 

If I did it all the time I would get a 7-08, I don't, so I will use what I have, it seems to work just fine if I don't stretch it and place it properly.

I know what you mean, I too like the 7-08 and might just have to have one

 

I get a bit brassed off (and probably too noisy) with the small and fast brigade, big and slow for dangerous game is the safe option. As found out in africa by our illustrious forfathers, they are much easier to get good expansion and weight retention with.

 

ft

[Mungler]

Back on topic...... .25-06 all day long

[Harnser]

Seems to be turning into a best calibre for deer thread . You all know were I stand and you all know that the .308 is proberbly the best all round calibre for just about everything . jack of all trades calibre and master of them all . 150 grain bullet travelling at 2600 feet per second will kill just about anything .

Harnser .

Edited November 30, 2009 by Harnser

[Yorkshire Pudding]

Cheers for all the replys fella's .

 

Me heads still spinning ! After that lot i wish i still smoked so i could drag on a few replys and then have another drag then read some more . Plenty of food for thought . Wonder which is the deerest round . lol .

 

mmmmm

 

all the best yis yp

[dieseldogg]

Wonder which is the deerest round . lol .

Excellent pun there Pudding

was it intended?

[njc110381]

I clay shoot with a chap who swears by the .25-06. It's fast and flat like the .243 but throws a bigger bullet. My main concern with the .243 has always been bullet weight. Why buy a gun that can often struggle to work well with the minimum legal bullet weight for Scotland? For Foxing and some Deer the .243 takes some beating, but if you're going to get keen on the Deer why not go bigger? I was talking to my FEO this week and he quite openly stated that they try to steer people away from the smaller Deer calibres if they plan to shoot Fallow or Red! That's a new one, the police pushing for you to get a bigger gun!

 

Regarding the Boar comment, although a little off topic I think it's relevant, why not ask for the new ACPO wording? It goes something like "the .25-06 rifle may be used to shoot Deer and any other legal quarry or for zeroing on ranges or land (deemed suitable by the chief officer of police and?) over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot". That's what I've just been given and it's great because you can do what you want as long as it's legal. I had a rant because I wanted to shoot Moles and my FAC didn't cover it! As far as I'm aware the .270 rule is only a guideline, not law? In my opinion if a .25-06 will kill a wound up Red Stag it will surely kill a Boar?

Edited December 1, 2009 by njc110381

[Mr_Logic]

Yes I've got my ticket back with the 'and any other legal quarry' bit on it too.

 

Kind of screws the "can you shoot fox with rimfire" debate - you can now! It's definitely legal quarry.

 

But anyway...

 

I agree the 243 isn't ideal for the same reason - in a 1:10 twist they often don't like the 100gr. I have a Howa which was down as a do-everything rifle in my eyes. It doesn't like 100 gr - just about shoots them, but not well enough that I would actually use it on living things.

 

It shoots the 95gr SST well, and it does the 55gr Nosler brilliantly - I had one < 1 inch group from the hot rifle, and a .3" from the cold. Chronoed yesterday at 3850, so it's become a fox rifle! I have ordered a .308 Varmint Tikka for the range, and I will shoot deer with that, too.

[Sauer]

here mungler sounds like yer getting on ok with that old boomstick o mine?:yp: hope so

 

as you can guess i sold my .25-06 but only because im turning in all my rifles and replacing with left hand versions (left hooker shooting right hand rifles)

 

i sold my rifle and i have a custom rifle on order....in.....yup .25-06 cal

 

i had a .243 before and loved it highly recommend it, but was offered the sauer .25-06 by an old guy who did my dsc2 dead no rest his soul.

 

hadnt even heard of it up till then....worked with a yank who told me very popular over there was originally a wildcaqt catridge designed for praire dog shooting on open plains where you cant get close no cover and shooting anything upto 500yrds.

told me they call it a "heavy .22-250" due to its flat shooting nature.

 

if you homeload it good i use necked down .270 & .30-06 brasses.

gives you that little bit more bullet weight for the bigger uk stuff and can be devestating fox rifle.

 

canna wait for my new 25cal to be ready ...that said nowt wrong with .243 either

 

either way good calibres

 

 

sauer